The Day America Lost Its Innocence

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by eyelikeart, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #1
    Today marks the 40th Anniversary of the assisination of JFK.

    I'm not going to post a link to any stories, there's too many of them. I've always been fascinated by this event of American history, and wanted to acknowledge it here.

    I'm curious to know other thoughts on it. What do u think of the conspiracy theories? Was the mob involved? What about Jack Ruby? Do u think Lee Harvey Oswald really did it?


    note: Please let's keep this from becoming a total political discussion.
     
  2. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Destin Florida
    #2
    Well, I have to say that I have researched this info a lot. I really don't believe that Oswald's bullet killed Kennedy. You look at all of the evidence, and there is no way that Oswald did it. He was truely a patsy.
     
  3. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #3
    What amazes me is that the truth hasn't come out by now. I agree that it was a life changing event, a loss of innocence. ABC's Peter Jennings did a 2 hour special on Thursday night about the assassination. It was called "The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy." We didn't watch the special, did not want to miss "CSI" or "ER." I have watched these specials before and you learn nothing new. They just bring up more questions. Apparently I did not miss anything, otherwise something ground breaking would have been widely reported.

    For me this event was real. Remember exactly where I was and what I was doing.
     
  4. eyelikeart thread starter Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #4
    That's what my mom always says. She recalls the Oswald shooting on tv very vividly.

    I've got a few books on this, and may add another to my collection.

    The Zapruder Film: Reframing Jfk's Assassination
     
  5. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #5
    I don't think there's much doubt in any serious persons mind that Oswald was set up and that Jack Ruby knew by whom and was a part of it, he didn't say a word about the events or his killing of Oswald all the time he was in prison, they really must have had something heavy on him, whoever "they" were.

    I doubt we'll ever get to know exactly what happened, but if you add up all the shooters from all the theories, then the grassy knoll should have looked like a scene from the film Zulu...:D

    I'm pretty sure that Kennedy was killed because of his policies towards Veitnam and his attitude to the Cold War, and that the motives that killed him were entirely monetary.
     
  6. eyelikeart thread starter Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #6
    It's a bit contrived how people died so strangely after these events also.

    Then there's the fact that autopsy reports were fudged, including doc's notes & photos.

    I'm of the opinion that Ruby and/or Oswald knew what was going on. There was a special on Ruby last week on the History Channel (I think?), and it's maintained that Ruby did it purely out of emotion. Yeah right.
     
  7. leet1 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #7
    Hey yall, if your near Dallas anytime, go downtown and visit the JFK museum. Very interesting; I just went there for a college project. You can look through the exact window that its said that he shot through. Also, they have an exhibit on conspirisy theories, the audio that came over the radio, a video exhibit, and a pretty nice little store with a good collection of stuff.

    Stop by Speghetti Warehouse afterwards :D

    My mom and dad remember exactly when it happened and where they were at the time. They are pretty old :p
     
  8. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    washington dc
    #8
    all i have to say is this...

    i think that 'seinfeld' tackled it best in the keith hernandez episode with the 'magic loogie'...
     
  9. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #9
    I watched the show, and many of the other JFK-related shows this week. Jennings show, based on a 3D computer reconstruction that wasn't possible even 10 years ago, claimed that Oswald did indeed kill the president, that there were no miracle shots, no magic bullets, and no real proof otherwise for 40 years.

    For example, people claim that Oswald couldn't have made those three shots in 8 seconds, or aimed so well. Yet as a U.S. Marine he exhibited expert marksmanship at twice the distance. The move "JFK" made a big issue out of the "magic bullet" that turned in mid-air, but that was because it had John Connally positioned as if he was facing forward, right in front of Kennedy at the same height. In fact, he had turned to the right, and his seat was to the left of and lower down than Kennedy's. With the correct positioning, you can draw a straight line from the book depository to both Kennedy's and Connally's entrance and exit wounds.

    The show pointed out many other falsehoods of the JFK movie, but totally ignored the controversy over the autopsy photos. In other words, the show made a good case for the issues it discussed, but avoided others, which could be because of the show's focus, limited length, or (as conspiracists will surely say) because they were hiding facts that didn't fit their conclusions.

    I hadn't known before that Oswald didn't seek out the job at the Texas Book Depository (it was recommended to him by a friend) or that he got the job before the president's motorcade route was known, lending credence to the claim that he was an opportunist looking for a place in history, not a patsy in a grand scheme.

    I won't be totally convinced either way until I hear a lot more about it, such as having each side continue to challenge statements of the other. For example, where was Oliver Stone's rebuttal to Jennings' claims that Stone falsified much of his movie's evidence?

    The Warren Commission had a conflict of interest. The president wanted there to be no panic that the Soviet Union had a part in the assassination. Just because the executive branch got the report it wanted doesn't mean that the report was wrong, however.

    Perhaps the most interesting facet of what I learned this week was this: immediately after the assassination, before any evidence was in, 2/3 of Americans thought there was a conspiracy, not a lone gunman, and today the proportion is still 2/3. The show concluded by explaining that believing in a conspiracy serves a purpose in people's minds - it gives a weight and meaning to the event, rather than leaving us with the feeling that one man, a loser, could control the destiny of our country.

    You can do your own research using the JFK Assassination Records Collection Reference System of the National Archives, where you can search for references to the papers collected and made public in accordance with the JFK Act of 1992.

    I suggest that we all ask our parents today where they were when they heard the news on November 22, 1963. Maybe we'll all learn something!
     
  10. pinto32 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Location:
    PA
    #10
    I watched a really interesting show Sunday 11/16) about the possibility of LBJ being involved/at least knowledgeable about the assassination plot. As much as I like him as a president (except for Vietnam), it provided a lot of very convincing testimony. If these people (that they interviewed for it) are even telling 50% of the truth about some of the comments he made, then it becomes very easy to beleive that he might have played a role in JFK's demise. Also of interest, it mentioned that "a certain director of the FBI" made a secret trip to Dallas the night before the assassination...

    Anyone else see this?...
     
  11. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    #11
    Here is a news bit that I didn't know....

    .....
     
  12. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #12
    Re: Here is a news bit that I didn't know....

    Yes, Rose Cheramie is yet another path on the trail of clues and non-clues. She said "she was traveling from Florida to Dallas with the men and that they planned to kill Kennedy in Dallas within a few days."

    If you believe her story (which included her claim that she "did not know the men"), then you are left with some questions: Why would these strangers, with their elaborate plot that has yet to be uncovered to this day, tell this stranger about their plan? If they let the plan slip, why did they let her go? And, if she did hear only that conversation, how could it be that "during the telecast moments before Kennedy was shot Rose Cheramie stated to them, ‘This is when it is going to happen’ and at that moment Kennedy was shot”?

    On the other hand, if you doubt her story, how can you explain the reports of her predictions? You might simply doubt the people who claimed this is what she said, but there seem to be a number of independent witnesses. Or you might resort to mathematics. There are a certain number of people who make predictions without any real knowledge of the future. Most of the predictions turn out false and are ignored. But when, by chance, one is correct, that person appears to have a true talent or have had an inside scoop on the information. Could hers have been a random prediction that just happened to turn out right?
     
  13. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #13
    truly odd - but if this continues a little longer, then it will become more legend than history......;)

    The recent specials on the History Channel have done a good job of the whole thing. Even having watched many other shows on the event, it was still interesting to watch.

    D
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #14
    The two most enduring mysteries of modern American politics are who shot JFK, and who is Deep Throat. I wonder if we will ever get convincing evidence for either of these.
     
  15. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #15
    I'm sure that we will know who about Deep Throat. My understanding is that Woodward & Berstein will release the name on the occasion of their death. I'm impressed that they have kept their word. Hopefully the answer will be known during my lifetime.
     
  16. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #16
    I thought it was after the death of Deep Throat, not after the death of Woodward & Berstein.

    Which is why one leading suspect, Martha Mitchell, seems to be ruled out, despite her having access to inside information, her being "well known for her gift of gab" and being "vociferous with a tendency to over-dramatize", and having been known to call the boys at the Washington Post.
     
  17. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #17
    ironically, i drove by lee harvey oswald's ( former)home today...it's in richardson texas near where i grew up. when i was young my mother introduced me to his wife, marina, at one of the local stores. that she had the courage to stay in the local area after the jfk thing is pretty astounding.

    i too believe oswald was either a patsy or just one of the minor people involved.
     
  18. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #18
    So is Lee Harvey Oswald's home actually listed as a historic residence? Whatever causes Oswald to do what he did, I don't believe that she knew anything. From what I saw of her she seemed like a nice lady.

    Sorry Doctor Q you caught me, I should have used there instead of their.

    Deep Thoat supects:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/deept.htm
     
  19. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #19
    no, the home is not marked with any sign or anything. my bet is the people who live there have no idea of it's significance...it's in a pretty unremarkable neighborhood. and yes, she seemed very nice...how tough it must've been to have everyone stop and stare at you wherever you went. not to mention the animosity she surely received from people who somehow held her partly responsible.
     
  20. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Location:
    serendipity
    #20
    oddly enough, i was just at the jfk museum in dallas last week. pretty interesting. i can't say i have read/seen enough about it all to have a solid opinion. but it does seem to have more questions than answers

    what's "deep throat"?

    besides my favorite movie..
     
  21. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #21
    We're moving this thread into new territory: "The Year America Lost Its Innocence... Again". Meaning Watergate. Which is OK with me. Actually, Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are such days too.

    Go rent the movie "All the President's Men", which is the best way to get a history lesson about Watergate, with Dustin Hoffman as Carl Bernstein and Robert Redford as Bob Woodward. It's the true story of how two reporters for the Washington Post started with a story about a two-bit burglary at the Watergate apartment complex and uncovered more, and more, and more, and ultimately did the reporting that unraveled Richard Nixon's presidency. Deep Throat was an informant, whose identity has still not been revealed, who met them (actually, I think it was only one of the two reporters) in a parking garage and gave them clue after clue to keep them on the right trail.

    If, on your first viewing, there are a few too many characters to keep track of, that's only because that's what it really was - so many people involved that it was hard to believe.
     
  22. pivo6 macrumors 68000

    pivo6

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Location:
    Minnesota
    #22
    Woodward and/or Bernstein said that they would reveal who "deap throat" was whenver that person passed away.
     
  23. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #23
    Here's a coincidence. I opened up the newspaper yesterday and there was an article about Deep Throat. The movie, not the informant. The article was about a documentary that was made about the 1972 movie and its influence on society then and afterwards. And Linda Boreman (billed as Linda Lovelace in the movie) died only last year, in a traffic accident in Denver.

    Or maybe that's what they want you to believe. Could this be yet another conspiracy by the USSR to cover up Watergate? Hmmm, I hope I'm not getting my time periods and topics confused! ;)
     
  24. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    #24
    I saw one documentary that gave compelling arguments and evidence to support the fact that the shooters were French assassins hired by certain members of U.S. government agencies.
     
  25. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Chi Town
    #25
    This whole mystery is going to remain just that until Kennedy's brain is examined. That would clarify a lot as far as the line of sight of the shooter and the actual type of weapon used to kill Kennedy. But we'll never be able to explore this until the National Archives finds his brain. When he was buried, it was removed and entrusted to the National Archives.

    But the National Archives doesn't know where it is: It was misplaced...Or is that just another layer to this puzzling conundrum of United States' history?
     

Share This Page