The End of Gaming on the Mac!!!

Discussion in 'Games' started by hvfsl, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #1
    I was reading the new issue of Macworld and I was supprised to hear that piracy is now so bad on the Mac that more people download illegal versions of a game than buy it (more people buy than download in the Windows world). This has meant many games are now making a loss on the Mac platform, where they would otherwise make a profit. This has meant the cancellation of many Mac games. The original Half Life is the biggest example.

    So if people dont start buying their games, we could easily see the end to gaming on the Mac. This would ultimately lead to the downfull of Apple since if there are no games for the Mac, then many families would not buy a Mac. Individuals, not businesses are meant to be the main users of Macs.
     
  2. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    #2
    I do have to doubt that many people buy a mac for games. The selection is small compared to PCs and consoles. They are released a long time after the PC/console equivalent and they remain at full price long after the PC/console versions are reduced to the bargain bin. If I wanted to play a game I'd buy an x-box or playstation. Both are a tenth of the price of a mac and have a better selection of up-to-date games.

    I didn't buy my mac because I wanted to play games on it. Personally I feel that people attach to much importance to gaming. Sure it drives the cutting edge of hardware but most home computers are not owned by alpha geeks. Most just want to use email, surf the web, IM, use word processors, get their digicam to work properly etc, etc.

    I think that to ascribe the end of mac gaming as meaning the end of the platform is a bit overdramatic.
     
  3. Edot macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Location:
    NJ
    #3
    Blizzard has it right

    I think that Blizzard has it right with their, if you don't buy it you can't play it, strategy. I mean if this is true then the makers of multiplayer games can at least take a stand against this.
     
  4. maelstromr macrumors 6502

    maelstromr

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2002
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    #4
    Of course, to fear the end of gaming on the mac one would have to assume therre ever HAD been gaming on the mac.

    While I appreciate the argument that "macs aren't for games" it's not really the best thing...the people who want games are trying to build a market for them. Macs COULD be for games if it was a profitable enterprise for anyone. In general I encourage anyone to buy the software they use, if not on moral principle on the general self preservation realization that we are getting better at tracking down illegal sources and users of Intellectual property.

    Just because it's easier than taking something off the shelf and not paying in a mall, doesn't make it more right.
     
  5. cubist macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2002
    Location:
    Muncie, Indiana
    #5
    I find it hard to believe that piracy of games is bad on the Mac. First, there are far fewer games available, and far fewer people to pirate them.

    In fact I would dispute that "more people buy than download in the Windows world". PC games are heavily copy-protected, whereas Mac games are often not copy-protected at all. Even so, "burned", "cracked" copies of PC games are widespread.

    By all statistics I've ever seen, piracy on PC is tremendous in every category of software, especially in the Middle East and Asia.

    Whoever made those statements in your magazine must have some data, I suppose, but it sounds like a vendor's rationalization for staying out of the Mac market to me. Electronic Arts used to make statements like that as justification for not offering Mac versions of their games. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them now.
     
  6. hvfsl thread starter macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #6
    The data is from MacSoft and Aspry, the companies that convert PC games to the Mac. They recorded the number of users downloading Mac games on P2P systems like Limewire and compared it to the numbers of people buying the games.

    Piracy on the PC is bad, but a greater percentage of users buy the games than on the Mac platform.
     
  7. maelstromr macrumors 6502

    maelstromr

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2002
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    #7
    Give me a fact and I'll provide statistics to prove it.

    Those numbers can tell you what you want them to. Don't forget the sheer VOLUME of PC games out there. I more accurate report would be how many people percentage wise pirate WC III, Rainbow 6, Halo, ect (games that BOTH platforms have availible retail.). It only really counts if there is a comparison...as it is you are talking about apples and oranges. (no pun intended)

    You're still a bad person if you steal software on either platform.
     
  8. ExoticFish macrumors 6502a

    ExoticFish

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    The inner depths of madness, aka Kent, OH
    #8
    i think what hvfsl was reading was about how MacSoft came out and said that more copies of Halo have been downloaded than bought, which i can understand. there are a lot of people out there in the mac community who are so angry at Halo that they aren't going to buy it, but you will play it! head over to MacGamer.com and read their three part series on piracy in the mac gaming world if you want a good idea of how things are.

    i think part of the problem might be because games take so long to come out for mac. it seems less apealing to buy a game for $50 on the mac when i can get the pc version for $15 in the cut out bin. people like Blizzard and ID (even EPIC now) seem to get it right. release a game for all platforms at once! then people aren't going to get all pissy when they have to wait for a year to play it.
     
  9. kettle macrumors 65816

    kettle

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    England, Great Britain (Airstrip One)
    #9
    i think this is just another media symptom of a load of business people thinking "Holy S***!" because Apple have really got a very good long term strategy.

    The iPod had time in Great Britains parliment questioning the battery life, which other battery powered device could claim that as an acolade?

    The computer media jump all over a couple of security issues with Mac OS X but choose to ignore the scale of the windows situation.

    It really is getting people worried that if people start questioning why they have to use one company and the industry that laps at its heals, that maybe they won't be able to put that awakening from ignorance back in the box.

    There are an awful lot of stops being pulled to make Apple seem as poor as the rest of the computer world.
     
  10. Horrortaxi macrumors 68020

    Horrortaxi

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #10
    A lack of games will keep people from buying Macs and eventually be Apple's downfall? Ain't gonna happen. Mac users, for the most part, don't play games. Most would never notice if another game was never released.
     
  11. hvfsl thread starter macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #11
    Well I mainly play games on my PC, but if I couldnt play any games on my PowerBook G4, I would not have got it. I know that only about 10% of people with Macs play games on them, but once that 10% goes because no more games are being made. Then this could have a knock on effect of others not getting an Apple. I have influenced at least 6 people since 1998 to get a Mac, but if there were no games on the Mac, I would not have got one, which would mean they would have a PC now. Which could mean others that those people know would get a PC where they would have otherwise got a Mac. Its all about chaos.
     
  12. kristo macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    #12
    The thing about games is that it is fun to now and then just have a blast....i still play quake 3 now and then just for that....i am working away, get burned out a bit, go, bugger this, fire up quake, shoot people (and die alot) then go back to what i was doing....its just a fun easy thing to do....i also have a xbox, but thats so that i can play burnout 2 with my wife (heh, awesome) and a pc as well (rediscovering deus ex) but like i said, sometimes you just want a quick blast and you want it, NOW.

    as for piracry, thats easy, look for some torrents, there are SHEDloads out there, but yeah, if its worthy, you'll buy it. If its a poor hack job that isn't worth your money to pay for the beta testing, then bugger them, they can do their bug fixing on their own time/money.
     
  13. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #13
    makes sense, but i dont think its the major contributer. they dont make games for mac cause the user base is to small and the return in profit probably isnt worth all the time and development costs. thats why compaines like blizzard do well cause the code for open gl, easy transition to windows and macintosh, and their games play equally as good as their pc counterpart.

    iJon
     
  14. hvfsl thread starter macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #14
    Thats not totally true because UT2003 runs in OpenGL and Direct X on the PC, but it runs like crap if you dont have a decent Mac. I can play UT2003 on my brothers PC which has a 750Mhz Duron chip, 256MB PC133 RAM and Geforce 3, and it runs fine with details set to max at 640x480.
     
  15. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #15
    its also probably because warcraft and diablo arent ports, they are just mac versions that blizzard make. ut2003 is a port, and not in house so that may be part of the problem. but also the macs havnet been to powerful in terms of pc until the g5 came out. full fsb, 8x agp and all that other good stuff. i see good things in the future, it has already started to show.

    iJon
     
  16. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #16
    If anything is killing MacGaming its the cpu called G4. all those games are made around fast clocks from the wintel world. move them over to the mac world and you are dealing with clocks running at less then half those wintel machines and almost none of those programs have a clue on what to do if your lucky enough to have 2 cpu's.
     
  17. silver6x macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    #17
    i can't wait till we can finally call "ding-dong the witch is dead" on the G4
     
  18. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #18
    Yep.

    G4 + "ported" software = not enough framerates.
    Only SMP supported games running on Dual 1 GHz G4s are running nicely in comparison to the PC counterparts.

    But the G5 is here. So is Radeon 9800 Pro (even the 256 MB VRAM one). Fast FSB, SATA disks, 400 MHz DDR RAM....
    The G5 is perfect for gaming.

    But is software piracy THAT BAD by Mac users compared to PC users in comparison??? What about the other developers like Adobe or M$?

    I must admit that I sometimes get a torrent file to download a game which is, for instance, NOT available here in Holland, just yet. But if I like the game, I really go out and buy it once it does arrive!
    I get a good feeling supporting software which I really like.
    Another example is iLife '04. I was so curious as to what iLife 04 was, I got a download off the internet.... but I also ordered it online via the Apple Store. I just could not stand waiting a couple of weeks.
    ;)
     
  19. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #19
    I think games should be ported to the Mac OS, and I do support the software developers in buying the games I like. Sure games are just entertainment, but they are a significant factor in purchasing PC's (all my PC using friends always consider the games factor in a new purchase). If more games were availible for the Mac OS I guarantee more people would by Macs. But part of the blame lies with developer community when it comes to making Mac products. Perhaps if the developers had more support they'd be better able to manage... but even pro's mess up... Does anybody remember the Neverwinter nights saga with Mac Soft?

    They were so slow with bringing the game out (without the toolkit) it caused much bitterness. Even now openkinights is picking up on Mac Soft's slack and developing a toolkit of there own. They even have taken the PC expansion disks and made installers to get them to work on Macs... and I'm sure Mac Soft is missing out on an opportunity to sell their own versions of the expansion.
     
  20. phreakout13 macrumors 6502

    phreakout13

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Location:
    South Eastern MA
  21. BaghdadBob macrumors 6502a

    BaghdadBob

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Location:
    Gorgeous, WA
    #21
    I'm assuming you are speaking in a more recent timeframe? Because gaming on the mac used to be robust.
     
  22. LoadRunner macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    Manhaton Beach California
    #22
    Re: The End of Gaming on the Mac!!!



    sells and piracy are two kind of two separate entities. Talking about them in combine is like talking about how oil and water mix. Any one who said that full of shieet. There is a hole science to the retail market. Basically some one in the company messed up. When some one says they made a loss half of the time it's a good thing. Basically it means their making a profit, but they also get to pay a little less in taxes. If they didn't they might made more money, but then they may have also made less because they would have had to give a larger percent of their income to the irc.

    BTW half life was not canceled due to concerned over piracy. Please state your sources.

    Please do not misunderstand my meaning. I am not trying to justy other action in piracy.
     
  23. hvfsl thread starter macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #23
    Re: Re: The End of Gaming on the Mac!!!

    MacSoft recorded the number of people downloading halo on P2P systems like Limewire, they then compared that to the number of people buying halo. Thats how they came to that conclusion. So more people steeling than buying.

    Also the Half Life thing was an official statement by VALVE. They said that the Mac gaming market was not very big, but because of pirating, it did not make financial sense to port Half Life to the Mac (even though it was almost finished when they released that statement). If you google around, you might still find it somewhere.
     
  24. slowtreme macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Location:
    Tampa FL
    #24
    Even if both PC and MAC users pirated games at a 50% ratio (for every copy sold, one is stolen) the user base on PC makes ROI easy. You'd still sell 20x more copies, assuming Macs have a 5% marketshare :eek:

    So lets say a game is made for MacOSX and there are 10,000,000 machines with OSX installed. Maybe there are 1,000,000 users that might be interested in it. (that would be a hugely popular game) If Half of those people bought it, that's 500,000 sold.

    The Windows installed user base is estimated at 500 million ??? If 10% of those users were interested (same as above) they could have 90% of those people pirate the game and only sell to 10% and still sell the same number of copies. or something, that might be 5%. I confused myself.

    hmmmmmm
     
  25. Golem macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney,Australia
    #25
    Re: Re: Re: The End of Gaming on the Mac!!!

    The numbers they quoted for sales are suprisingly low and it wouldnt take too many copies to exceed that. Where they go wrong is equating lost sales to number of copies pirated. I wasnt to happy with their attitude to their paying customers either, I should note that over the years I have had too throw 2 games cd's worn out from general wear and tear and I have lost the cd's to another 3 or so games. As for macsofts comment that damaged CD's would be replaced. Haa!

    Part of the problem may be the number of games that are coming out for mac these days. It may not seem like it but the last time I visited my local mac gaming specialist their were 30! new mac games in 1 shipment. While Australia does tend to get supplies in big lumps their is no way any 1 person could play in depth any significant number of them.
     

Share This Page