The Future of Iraq?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #1
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...6,0,5643376,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

    Good Job, George!
     
  2. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Location:
    Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    #2
    It's unfortunate, but they did have a better system in place when that tyrant Saddam was in power.

    I agree, GOOD JOB DUBBAYA! You've effectively reduced an entire country to nothing but despair, war, and humiliation.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #3
    Once again, you beat me to it. Read this story over breakfast this morning. Not an aid to digestion, I can tell you.

    Stories like this prod me towards the position that the U.S. and Britain should begin withdrawing all troops starting immediately, and finish the job as quickly as possible. There's nothing much left to save, and little to be gained by keeping them in Iraq. Any opportunity for our armed forces to have an influence, positive or otherwise, on the final outcome, is passed.
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #4
    So... is the Iraq of today making us safer than the Iraq of 2002? Are we more or less likely to face a terrorist attack because of our actions in Iraq today then we were in 2002? Is the Middle East, as a whole, more or less stable than it was in 2002? Are there more, or less, terrorists in the world now than there were in 2002?

    These are the questions American voters will have to decide as they head to the polls this year...
     
  5. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #5
    Every time I read something like this it always reminds me the cliche, "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." I mean, is it possible to impose democracy on people that don't want it? If there was a strong, singular resistance to Saddam (a democratic revolution that just needed an extra "push" to gain control) then I think things would be completely different. But there wasn't so it isn't.


    Lethal
     
  6. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #6
    we will force you to make your own decisions!
     
  7. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #7
    Wow. I just walked right into a big wall of irony and didn't even realize it.


    Lethal
     
  8. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #8
    Solution split Iraq into 3 seperate states and be done with it, or prepare for years of civil strife and war. The president thought these three could live in peace. He is wrong again.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #9
    Splitting Iraq up would be a huge failure on Bush's part. It would immediately plunge Turkey into a huge problem with an independent Kurdish state on it's border, and would leave the South to Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and the central area to Iran. All of which will promote regional instability.

    And if you think an unstable Iraq is a problem, see what happens when you throw a handful of other countries into the mix.
     
  10. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #10
    But on the other hand, is there even a chance for success?

    Maybe we have to choose between failure and even bigger failure. :(

    e
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #11
    i submit that GHW Bush's containment of saddam deemed wildly successful.

    the apple that is GW Bush fell rather far from the tree, indeed.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #12
    We'll see if the righties have the same level of vitriol for a conservative who questions whether we have failed already in Iraq or not. I'm guessing we won't, for purely partisan reasons. Does anyone really think we'll hear any conservatives calling for Buckley to be hung for sedition?
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #13
    I like the Irish saying better:

    Ní dhéanfadh an saol capall rás d'asal.

    All the world would not make a race horse from an ass.
     
  14. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #14
    Does that comment betray a certain despair with the Democrats?
     
  15. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #15
    I have a feeling if old George and his draft dodging buddies like Cheney,Hastert,Libby,Rove, and others had done some "Nam "time we wouldnt have ever set foot back into that country.

    Who in their right mind would invest in that country other then George & the gang pissing away our $$$. I wonder if George and his rich buddies would invest their own money and children into that country? thats the question we should all be asking. We know the answer is no but since its the faceless taxpayers kids & dollars it was easy to do while killing any money that would have been left in the treasury to shore up SS, the space program,R&D on energy or anything else for that matter. Instead all blown for Saddam, yet Iraq now has less of a future then it did when Saddam was killing his brothers?
     
  16. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #16
    So. Would anyone in Washington care to run their dog-and-pony show again? Stand next to an Iraqi, raise his arm to show his purple-stained finger, and tell us again about how well democracy is working in Iraq?

    This is really turning into the opposite of schadenfreude. This is where people like CIA analysts, state department experts and people like you and me get to say, "I told you so" -- and derive absolutely no joy from it. Quite the contrary; we've got something like 2,300 U.S. soldiers killed, and Iraqi casualties numbering something like 30,000 (iirc). And for what?

    For all this effort, here it is three years later, and we haven't gained a DAMN THING. If anything, we've taken a tense but controlled situation (with Saddam) and turned it into a terrorist free-for-all. Oh yeah, and we made life chaotic for the Iraqis into the bargain.

    Until recently, I didn't think that guys like Murtha were right about simply pulling out. But current events may leave us no choice. Sure, things could calm down again, but will they? And even if they do...if this kind of massive tribal violence could be stirred up so easily, in a country with a deep and long history of ethnic suspicion, it could just as easily happen again. There are, in fact, people dedicated to making it so.

    What makes us think a quickie course in Democracy 101 is going to change things?

    Go to hell, Mr. Bush. Yeah, if things keep going the way they're going in Iraq, I'll feel justified in telling all your supporters how wrong they were about you...but I'll take damned little pleasure in it. I just hope you, your oil company buddies and your draft-dodging, big-****-swingin' neocon pals are proud of yourselves. :mad:
     
  17. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #17
    What it boils down to is that both the opposition parties and the governments in both our countries failed to do their jobs, the former to make judgments consistent with the principles which they claim to represent, the latter by failing to offer a meaningful difference in approach or a credible leader at precisely the time a real change of approach could have been initiated. Shame on them, and shame on us for letting it happen. This is a criminally mismanaged, unethical, illegal and, I would venture, treasonable, use of self-appointed powers to effect a vicious, unprincipled and premeditated assault on a sovereign state in pursuit of a goal of which our great democracies were not even informed. Any kudos and moral authority bought by the sacrifice of millions in two world wars has been squandered, first in Vietnam and now in Iraq. We got away with a dreadful preparatory deception in GW1, luring SH into Kuwait and then slaughtering his army and destroying his infrastructure, and then did it again. How many times can a country be flattened before it falls apart?
     
  18. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #18
    At this point we need to get out altogether or increase troop levels to a point where total victory is possible, probably somewhere around 500,000 men.

    I think Bush thought he could just half-ass the war effort, keeping it from exploding out of control while not calling in an unpopular number of troops until his term was over. Then he could just pass the buck to the next guy and let him take the heat for making real decisions.

    It's 1964 all over again. What'll it be, Mr. President?
     
  19. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #19
    From Bad to Worse

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/26/AR2006022600078.html

     
  20. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #20
    What exactly is this "Total Victory" of which you speak? Is it related to the "Final Solution"? Definition please, on no more than 2 sides of A4.

    ... he asked with resignation.
     
  21. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
  22. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #22
    This is also my question. The differences between the groups in Iraq are deeply embedded in history, culture and religion. No amount of troops will change their hostility towards one another, or create a tidy liberal democracy and a prosperous economy where none has ever existed before. The definition of success in Iraq needs to be changed again. The new one can be withdrawal with no more than 2,500 U.S. casualties in total, which means we've got about three months to get out.
     
  23. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #23
    I have a feeling a half million MPs could police the nation effectively. Problem is we don't have that many. And that brings up that pesky "d" word.

    That's of course the word that made Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle and the rest of the cowards duck lo those many years ago, so they may still be apprehensive in talking about it. To be fair, any time you're in company that includes Cheney you should consider ducking and dodging.
     
  24. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #24
    To me the most amazing thing is the root of why there is the Sunni vs Shiite thing, it goes back to what a thousand years ago and and who was going to be in charge of this new islamic religion. These guys are still fighting over something that occurred a thousand years ago??? amazing, just amazing.

    My other thought is where are all the republicans who support this president? Seems no matter how bad a party becomes, how many things they do wrong folks will stold hold blind allegiance to a party. This isnt a football team folks, This kind of thinking is what was used to bring many a dictator to power through history. Drop your freaking party and go independent, write your senators let em know how messed up the policys have become??? Instead i feel like oh well iam a republican no matter what:rolleyes: We need to vote the interest of the country not the party. Bush has become the great divider for this nation and now Iraq. Hey republicans this guy screwed up and you , me and your grandkids will pay the price for years and years. You dont reward constant screwup.
     
  25. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #25
    Half a million juicy targets. Dream on. Did we really go there to set up a police state? Good practice, maybe...
     

Share This Page