The Great Debate.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Taft, Jan 30, 2003.

  1. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #1
    I've decided to try to move the debate over the war in Iraq to a new thread. Maybe we can gain a fresh perspective by starting a new thread.

    I'll begin by pointing everybody to an article on Salon that I found particularly non-partison (especially for Salon). The article is a recounting of a debate over the Iraqi situation by a pro-war advocate and an anti-war advocate. Both of the opponents are well-known pundits with press affiliations and very strong opinions.

    I think its worth a read. Please tell me what you think and, if other debates of this nature exist, please point me to them on the web. Hearing a articulate and well spoken argument by both sides is always a good thing.

    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/01/30/debate/index.html

    Taft
     
  2. vniow macrumors G4

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    #2
    Would you mind posting the article for those who don't have a subsciption pleeze?[​IMG]
     
  3. vniow macrumors G4

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    #3
    never mind, I'll do it: Page 1

     
  4. vniow macrumors G4

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    #4
    Page 2

     
  5. vniow macrumors G4

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    #5
    Page 3

     
  6. Taft thread starter macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #6
    Eep! Sorry. Its sometimes hard to tell what is subscription only material when you've already subscribed. I can't tell you how many times I've done this to my friends.

    Thanks for the helping hand!

    Taft
     
  7. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #7
    thank you for putting this post up...it's very important for believers in both sides to arm themselves with knowledge before screaming opinion. I for one, marched against the war this weekend in pittsburgh, and between five and ten thousand of my fellow citizens agreed with me.


    The one quote in this piece that could galvanize america against the war is:



    He read a passage from Bob Woodward's book "Bush at War" in which Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld says, two weeks after 9/11, "Should we be getting something going in another area other than Afghanistan, where the success and failure isn't measured just by Afghanistan?"

    assuming this quote to be accurate, how on earth can we support this war? Conservatives and bush-supporters, i ask you, "how does this statement make you feel?"

    i must sit back and take much of this information in before i post further. thank you, vniow, for getting this thread started on the right foot.
     
  8. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #8
    This is how I really feel.

    Our government is not an angel. Their are things about it that make me sick to my stomach, however, it is my government. George W. is my President. I have always had a very loyal feeling to the President having served our country in the military. Now, I don't always agree. I thought that Somalia was a very, very big mistake, and it was. At least the way in which we did it was a big mistake. I also think that we do have a duty to go after Saddam.

    He has had 12 years to do the right thing and has not. We know the amount of weapons that he had through the UN reports, and we know that he hasn't given any evidence of their destruction. I think from a humanitarian standpoint the people of Iraq will be much better off without him. We made the mistake of supporting him to begin with. We though at the time that he was the lesser of two evils. He fooled us. So, that being said, I think that we have to go, and we have to go before he can actually obtain any nuclear weapons. That would have devistating consequences.
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    Thank you Backtothemac! yes i have served and yes i feel like you! And dont forget those bio/chemical weapons ! They may not make a loud bang but they can kill thousands plus many more.
     
  10. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #10
  11. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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  12. Taft thread starter macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #12
    No offense, but what does this have to do with out current debate?

    It is simply a declaration of support of the US by some European leaders. I'll leave it to you to determine the reasons for that support.

    The question this thread is trying to answer still remains: should we go to war with Iraq?

    If we can get a good, and well mannered, conversation going where we detail the reasons for and against a war with Iraq, it might help answer that question.

    Taft
     
  13. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #13
    If the United States can succeed in focussing the world's attention on securing/destroying chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, that will make the world a safer place.
    The presence of the inspection teams in Iraq is the begining of this process. We cannot and should not circumvent the very policy we demanded mere months into the process. Inspections aren't working fast enough? Quadruple the size. get UN Peacekeepers involved. Donate your intelligence to the inspectors. DO SOMETHING TO PROVE YOU WANT INSPECTIONS TO WORK! Give the UN Inspectors some muscle to keep iraq honest about the inspection conditions. BUT DO NOT START A WAR IN MY NAME.

    Terrorism is a threat to world peace. A failure in the war on terror is a threat to the Bush presidency. Success in Iraq looks like success in the war on terror, looks like four more years. But it also looks like more terrorist attacks, more american civilians hurt and killed, more nations finding fault in our ways, and more and more and more muslim moderates swinging to radicalism.
     
  14. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #14
    The war brings these guarantees:
    Many billions spent.
    A half million dead.
    A severe spike in fuel prices (hopefully temporary and brief) that will put us farther from economic recovery.

    But what do we get that would justify this expense?
    I'm not sure that the world will be a safer place after even a best case scenario win for the US.

    The justifications given thus far don't add up.
    Saddam has nukes. No proof given, just trust our word.
    Saddam has terrorist ties. No credible links given. All analysis shows that Saddam and Al Queda despise each other.
    Protect the Kurds. After we supplied the gas and shielded criticism of Saddam when it happened the US doesn't have the moral authority to play this card.
    Regime change. Okay, this one I can buy, but who do we get instead? Uday Hussein? No thanks.

    Do we have options? Yes. Containment. Inspections. Threats. It's worked so far.
    Exile Saddam. The Saudis are working on this one.
     

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