The Japanese GP Thread

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by iGav, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. iGav macrumors G3

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    #1
    Suzuka.... my favourite circuit in the F1 calendar. :D and so begins the back to back races that sees the end of the 2005 Formula 1 season.

    Much like 2003, Suzuka's unpredictable weather has thrown a curve on things during qualifying... although with much delight no doubt for the Japanese fans who see both a Toyota and a Honda line up on the front row of the grid with Schu Jr. and Button respectively taking the honours, both benefitting from the weather lottery.

    Qualifying results.

    1. Schumacher Jr.
    2. Button
    3. Fisichella
    4. Klien
    5. Sato
    6. Coulthard
    7. Webber
    8. Villeneuve


    Race Results.

    1. Fisichella
    2. Schumacher Jr.
    3. Button
    4. Sato
    5. Klien
    6. Coulthard
    7. Barrichello
    8. Webber

    Thoughts?
     
  2. link92 macrumors 6502

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    #2
    OK, that was one hell of a good race. Can't remember seeing better.

    Fernando's overtake of Michael taking the outside line through 130R was just incredible. So was Kimi's overtake of Fisi on the final lap.

    (Yes, I did get up at 5am to watch it live!)
     
  3. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #3
    That was a helluva race. Kimi is the man. Renault can go to hell. Kimi should be the champion. He is without a doubt the best driver. Schumacher also had a strong run. Awesome race though.
     
  4. Jon'sLightBulbs macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Raikonnen - from 17th on the grid to race leader. Incredible. If not for Montoya's spill immediately following the start of the race, Mclaren could still have been in the manufacturer's cup lead.

    Poor Sato, kept out of contention in front of his home crowd by contact, also at the start.
     
  5. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #5
    He was 20th I thought??? Dead last?

    Sato is worthless. He's the most out of control driver ever. There have been so many times where he was far in the back with no hope of making podium and yet he still drives out of control, usually ending up in the back of Schumacher, Kimi, or Montoya. Worst driver ever.
     
  6. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #6
    Yay for similar time-zones. If it weren't for Bathurst (which was an absolutely amazing race BTW, crapped all over anything F1 can do) then Channel Ten may have actually played it through within three hours of it actually starting. :eek:

    It's good to see Webber getting into it a bit, and that race by Kimi was as impressive as ever.
     
  7. stevep macrumors 6502a

    stevep

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    #7
    Excellent qualifying, really good race - and all totally spoilt here in the UK because the BBC announced the result at 8.45am UK time (about 2 hours or so after the race finish) - so anyone who was waiting to watch the full ITV coverage at 2pm UK was stuffed. Thanks very much BBC you stupid arrogant gits.
     
  8. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #8
    Don't you just love Suzuka... :D t'was well worth getting up at 6am to watch the race.

    Congratulations to Kimi, He drove an absolutely stunning race from 17th on the grid, pulling off some damn fine overtaking moves in the process, accumulating in a last lap move on the outside of Fisichella into turn 1... and yet again he's on the fortuitous end of a safety car period.

    Alonso too drove a brilliant race, although you have to say... he'd almost certainly have won it had it not been for the FIA screwing up and making him drop back for a second time to let Klien past, only to be told that it was a mistake by the FIA, luckily that mistake didn't affect the outcome of the World Championship, because that incident really would have left a nasty taste in the mouth.

    I was surprised at how light the Toyota's were running, much like what they did at Indy... only a handful of laps at best, again they were somewhat flattered by the safety car period which saved them some fuel, otherwise it's conceivable that they might have been in on lap 9 or 10 :eek: I was also surprised by BAR-Hondas comparative lack of pace, even though they were rumoured to be running delimited Suzuka specials.

    Schumacher was unfortunate not to have claimed 6th from D.C. after a lengthy last pitstop dropped him back a place, a superb drive though by Schu, with an awesome first lap, moving up from 14th to 7th, and it really was fascinating to see him holding off Alonso and Räikkönen in a car that was giving away the best part of 2 seconds a lap at those stages of the race. Incredible driving.

    Thumbs down have to be given to Sato and Villeneuve, for the former yet again we see him involved in an avoidable incident, it's really about time that the FIA come down hard on him. And the latter putting Montoya in the wall after skipping the chicane, I have a feeling that given half the chance Montoya will be wanting to return the favour (think Monaco this year). :eek:

    In any event, it was a really entertaining, eventful and exciting race, but something that on the surface masked the many current problems with F1. :(
     
  9. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    #9
    First time I actually enjoyed a F1 race from start to finish in a long time.

    Must say, most of the fun was due to the rain on Saturday's qualifying.
    Imagine the same race with the two McLarens on the first row, followed by the two Renaults.... it would have been the same ol' story... :rolleyes:

    As for Sato..... get out.

    BTW.... (being Dutch :p ) small flashbacks of a burning Verstappen.... This time poor ol' Albers had some hot feet...
     
  10. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    Best race of the year by far! :D :D

    More good passes at Suzuka than the rest of the year combined.

    That was absolute crap, Alonso really had to slow down to let Klien by the second time

    The Toyotas simply faded away after the stops, before Trulli got fragged by Sato. I really thought Button would have a shot at the Podium, but he was 2 seconds off the pace.

    Fantastic, Schumacher made a superhuman effort holding the faster cars back. Obviously those who claim he is past his prime are off the mark. I'm really looking forward to a Ferrari resurgence next year.

    I really want to root for Sato. I really do. I'm a sucker for the underdog. But these crashes are just ridiculous. He just drove right through Trulli like he wasn't there. Nevertheless, he'll be back at the Honda B-squad due to big fan suppport (why?).

    I'm not so sure of Montoya's crash. I was ticked that my favorite driver was off after lap 1. But he was trying to go way outside on Villenueve, and maybe was a little too agressive? It didn't look like Jacques closed the door so much as Montoya tried to force the issue late in the corner on the outside.

    Absolutely stellar drive from Alonso, passing Schu spectacularly. He could have won the race if not for the business with Klien.

    Fisi drove a very good race but he simply couldn't match Alonso's pace in the R25, much less the Iceman. I was hoping he could go the distance but he was still running 1:33s when Raikkonen was doing 1:31s. Still - he put the second Renault R25 on the podium and Renault is now back in the lead for the constructor's championship.

    And how about Webbo? 4th place and a surprisingly quick Williams car. Big move in the pits to get past Button. I'm sure the team is relieved to have something positive to talk about for once. Especially with Pizzonia continuing to go wrong. Although Webber nearly ran Alonso off the road during that late pass going into turn one.

    Raikkonen was the man today...from 17th to first and the win with a spectacular pass on Fisichella on the last lap!

    Alonso really showed good stuff today with that pass on Schuey - the McLaren seemed to have trouble following cars as closely as the Renault, and Kimi couldn't get past Schu or the Webber/Button battle. But Alonso is a true contender - Kimi and Schu are probably in a class by themselves as far as speed goes but Alonso is close - and he doesn't make mistakes either.

    The race could have been very different if Montoya stayed out of the tire wall and Alonso not been wrongly penalized. But it was great to watch nonetheless.

    Not a great result for the Japanese though.
     
  11. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #11
    He started 17th because some drivers hadn't put in a time for quali.

    Don't forget the several times he ran into Rubens last year. Namely at the new 'Ring, taking himself off, even though he would have had 3rd from Rubens a lap later.

    and then:
    This is starting to get a little out of hand. Perhaps Honda should get away from their nationalism and get a driver who won't punt everyone off. Heck, even Ralf isn't as bad as Taku.


    As for Alonso cutting the chicane, he did it at Monaco too, while trying to hold off a much faster Webber. Nothing happened then though, which was lame.
     
  12. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    Well, Villenueve got penalized so apparently the stewards thought he did indeed run JPM off the road. Way to go Jack Newtown.

    Sato got himself excluded from the results after his blatant crash with Trulli as well. Egg on the face of Honda...
     
  13. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #13
    Yea I saw that Sato got disqualified for the incident with Trulli. He's gotta feel like an ass, especially on his home track.

    Did anyone else hear Alonso saying he could have won if he really wanted to? What a little bitch. Renault can go straight to hell.... :mad:

    Also, Kimi was saying something about his 7th gear being messed up. He said he was bouncing it off the rev limiter each time he tried to pass. Just imagine what he could do if MB-McLaren could make a damn car work properly for more then one race at a time.
     
  14. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #14
    Careful now Fernie, you may be a champion, but the guy standing in 3rd place right now has done it again and again. You've still got stuff to learn...

    Well, I imagine they would have won the '99 Constructor's championship, and possibly the '00 WDC ;)
     
  15. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #15
    I cant wait to see Kimi with Ferrari. Apparently he wants $40 million a year to drive for them. Thats a healthy chunk of change.
     
  16. Indyfan31 macrumors newbie

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    #16
    Then why did the announcers repeatedly say that he came from "dead last"?
    Also, I'm assuming the officials had observers on-track at the turn where Montoya went off, since the video only showed him trying an impossibly desperate move on the outside of Villeneuve.
     
  17. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #17
    I could have sworn that he started 20th. They were repeatedly saying he went from P20 to P1.
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #18
    Classic F1 driver-speak. All great drivers are convinced that they are the best. Ask Alonso Kimi, Schuey, JPM or Button and they all believe that they have what it takes to be the top driver.

    F1 drivers are much like fighter pilots - they have to be technically smart, calm under pressure and yet posses the drive and will to crush their opponent after accurately assessing their abilities. They have to be convinced they can win.

    In terms of pace Renault has never been closer in performance to the McLaren than they were on Sunday at Suzuka. Both manufacturers totally outclassed all the other teams. I'll take nothing away from Raikkonen's spectacular drive but Alonso showed that this year's success wasn't all luck. In equal cars Alonso could probably give Kimi more of a fight than anybody not named Michael Schumacher.

    At the moment though Raikkonen is the fastest man on four wheels, and promises to be so for a long time.
     
  19. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #19
    I've not read that, although I have read his displeasure at his strategy and the FIA's error that likely cost him the win.

    Had it not been for the FIA's mistake though, he would have won. He was as quick as Kimi on a clear track, but quicker through the traffic.

    I was actually really impressed by Alonso at Suzuka, in a season where he's just been cruising at the front, it was sweet to see him actually racing for position... admittedly it's somewhat easier when you have a 1.2 second advantage on anything other than a McLaren though. :eek:

    Both Kimi and Alonso were both aided greatly by the safety car though, had it not been out for such a long period, then it's obvious that Fisichella would have won. Tis' all the luck of the draw though, and for once lady luck shone on Kimi.

    From Kimi's comments, it sounds like 7th was undergeared and that they hadn't taken into account the effect slipstreaming would have on the top end.

    He started 17th, Monteiro started 20th.

    The confusion probably stemmed from the fact that Kimi had an engine change so he was to be docked 10 places, and because he qualified so poorly so he should have been placed at the back of the grid.

    However, because 3 other drivers didn't set times in qualifying then Kimi kept his position on the grid because he was effectively the slowest driver in qualifying, so their was no further positions he could be dropped because 3 drivers didn't take part in qualifying.

    Those drivers grid positions are (If I recall correctly) decided by practice lap times.

    I don't think Kimi was ever as low as 20th at any part of the race, even when he made a mistake and straightlined the chicane as well. As both Barrichello and Sato pitted on lap 1 and 2 respectively and then Barrichello again pitted on lap 6.

    I only saw the end sequence as well... the Stewards likely had access to in-car streams for use as evidence.

    What we have to consider though, is that Villeneuve missed the chicane whilst Montoya was behind him, thus he kept his position unfairly and Villeneuve should have let him by.

    From comments by Montoya, Villeneuve missed the chicane and then was accelerating very slowly, the latter part ties up exactly with the broadcast footage, so whether Montoya assumed that Villeneuve was letting him past or not... who knows.
     
  20. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #20
    Well, I know one of them certainly does ;)
     
  21. tagy macrumors regular

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    #21
    well If he did not loose all that time with the klien incident, maybe a different stratagy..who knows? Alonso had the pace to challenge kimi at least which has not been the case for a while.

    and why do you keep saying 'renault can go to hell' :confused: Is it just because they are beating your favourite team/driver? that what it sounds like.
     
  22. bursty macrumors 6502a

    bursty

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    #22
    Renault is a piece of sh*t. Renault is like M$ to me. They are the devil.
     
  23. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #23
    :eek: :eek: :eek: just out of interest... can I ask why?
     
  24. tagy macrumors regular

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    #24
    err ok lol, well I have been a reanault fan since '94 with Hill in the williams-renault. Hope they win the constructors :p :D
     
  25. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #25
    Even though Toyota probably has the biggest budget, and Ferrari has won everything the past 5 years?
     

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