The Martial Arts Thread 2.0

Discussion in 'Community' started by ravenvii, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. ravenvii macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #1
    I wish I can bump the old Martial Arts and continue the discussion, but alas it's in the archives. So I'm starting a new one :)

    I've been interested in martial arts for a while now, but never got around to seriously looking for a school. But now that I have a whole summer to myself I'm thinking I'd take a class. I'm looking at Aikido and Kung Fu, as I'm most interested in those two styles. But I'm pretty much brand new to martial arts (my only experience was 2 years of Tae Kwon Do back when I was 8... I only got to a yellow belt during that time... :rolleyes:

    I'm from the NYC area, so anyone here have a recommendation of a good Aikido or Kung Fu school (that's easily accessible with public transportation)? I'm going to go visit the Shaolin Temple here, it sounds awesome. Anyone have any input about it?

    I go to school in the DC area, so it's possible I'll want to continue my training there during the school year. Any recommendations for that area? Public transportation-accessible, of course. I don't have a car :)

    *bows* :D
     
  2. mcarnes macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    Mar 14, 2004
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    USA! USA!
    #2

    I must warn you, I know karate...

    And 7 other chinese words.

    nul nuk nuk ;)
     
  3. CubaTBird macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    #3
    i always wanted to get into matrial arts.. ever since i was like 9 or 10.. got side tracked into macs though.. lol.. but i still respect people who can do martial arts..
     
  4. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #4
    I'd heartliy recommend Aikido, (well I would... :rolleyes: ) I've got black belts in Karate and Aikido and experience in Kung Fu (mainly Lau Gar), Tae Kwon Do and Kendo.

    I like Aikido because it's so different in approach and when done well is utterly lethal or completely harmless, it's your choice. It's very difficult to kick someone "a little bit" and still be effective, Aikido allows you to practice minimum force and still be useful.

    Check out the Tomiki style if you're into competition, or Daiti Ryu Aikido if you just want to mess people up.

    Steven Segal's style (can't remember it's name) is supposed to be good, he is certainly very impressive close up, but I can't comment further because it's not taught in England.

    Be prepared for a long haul though Aikido takes a good 3 years to become remotely effective, and it's not an art anyone can learn.

    Good Ju-jitsu is another option, but too much of it has descended into wrestling and cage-fighting. Gracie Ju-jitsu is the daddy.
     
  5. MacRy macrumors 68040

    MacRy

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    Apr 2, 2004
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    England
    #5
    Would have been even funnier were Karate actually a chinese word ;)

    Karate = empty hand. It's Japanese I believe.
     
  6. applekid macrumors 68020

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    Jul 3, 2003
    #6
    Well, the way my friend puts it, Kung Fu is one of the better martial arts because you can use it in real life. You become aware of your surroundings and make use of it, if a fight ever happens. Your whole body becomes a weapon. That's the reason he says he chose Kung Fu over the other martial arts. I sorta guess my friend's right. My sister is a black belt in Karate, but I can take her on any day when we have our "sibling skirmishes" ;)

    But, if you're not learning a martial arts for just self-defense, anything is good :) It's good exercise, fun, and good discipline and you can always show off cool moves to people :)
     
  7. redeye be macrumors 65816

    redeye be

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    BXL
    #7
    Being able to use your art in real life all depends on the training. You can do any martial art either way, just a work-out or street-fight skills.

    I myself do modern northern wushu, it is based on several kungfu styles from the north of China. It's all for shows, but it gives you flexebility and awareness of your surroundings and body. I can probably punch you harder then before i sarted doing wushu, but i will surely bite the dust when facing somebody who has trained real life combat. If only through the fact that the other person knows what it is to take several punches.

    I went to a few trainings of Brasilian Ju-Jitsu (Gracie style), this has to be one of the more effective 1 on 1 styles, just get close, hit the ground and break.

    And then there is Krav Maga, dirty, effective, very dangerous.

    Every style has it's pros and cons, every teacher teaches differently. Pick a style and a training method you like, don't be afraid to go and do a test training to make your choice, don't go just to watch, mostly that tells nothing.

    Cheers
     
  8. superbovine macrumors 68030

    superbovine

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    Nov 7, 2003
    #8
    I agree with you, Aikido or it's sister Judo is the martial art that is most effective to learn i.e. time vs effectivenss. I have studied more Judo and Tae Kwon Do than Aikido, but in the end with less training you can be more effective than any kicking/punching material art. It is a funny site is to watch a black belt in Tae Kwon Do get thrown around by a mid-level Judo person. I'd also say if you are learning Judo limberness will be less of an issue compared with other kicking/punching material arts.

    Although, I think it is a good idea to took multiple arts because, you learn how to think in a fight for that particular style.
     
  9. tangerineyum macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Location:
    Ontario, CA
    #9
    I did 5 years of Judo and Jujitsu as a kid before i broke my leg in competition. My parent refused to let me go back into sport and stopped my martial arts career. I broke the same leg a couple years later playing football. It was great, most of it is all but forgotten, but the little i still remember makes for great fun when your rough housing with the guys, of course they don't know what i know so it's not exactly fair.
     
  10. superbovine macrumors 68030

    superbovine

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    #10
    did you break your leg or did someone help you break your leg?
     
  11. MentalFabric macrumors 6502

    MentalFabric

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    Mar 10, 2004
    #11
    I currently do ninjutsu, which is great! previously i did a few years of judo and about a year of lau gar kung fu, but to me it seems like ninjutsu is to kung fu as kung fu is to boxing - a whole lot more complex (though other 'strains' of kung fu look to be a little more interesting than lau gar, i want to start doing wushu as well as ninjutsu)
     
  12. tangerineyum macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Location:
    Ontario, CA
    #12
    a very nasty 12 year old went for an unsuccessful over the hip throw at a tournament in San Diego. I never made it all the way around his hip, he staggered and feel back on me in an awkward position and fractured my fibula. It broke in the exact same place a bout 4 years later in the last 2 min of the first game of the season, during my varsity debut. I was tackled from behind with my cleat dug into the grass, there was no where for my leg to go but out. Not very fun, missed the whole season.
     
  13. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #13
    I have about 9 years training in Tae Kwon Do and a 1st degree black belt. I got out of it years ago, just didn't care anymore. I might take Akido this next semester cause my university offers it as a class. The only other way I would probably treck into martial arts is go back to Bangkok for a summer and train in Muay Thai boxing, that's the hardcore s***.

    jon
     
  14. superbovine macrumors 68030

    superbovine

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    #14
    ouch... that 12 year old probably had no business in a tourment anyways if he couldn't control the person he was throwing or himself.
     
  15. ravenvii thread starter macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    Mar 17, 2004
    Location:
    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #15
    Well, came back from paying a visit to the Shaolin Temple and the New York Aikikai (Affiliated with USAF East, if that means anything). I'm very unimpressed with the Shaolin Temple, the classes doesn't seem to be my style, and it's fullof "I am/I want to be so tough, and I'm here to show it!" people. The whole class is very "militarized", strict, everyone the same, and no sparring.

    After that I went to the New York Aikikai, and what an attitude difference. The people are much friendier, the class actually seems interesting, and they pair the newbie with a instructor for a one-on-one instruction of the basics - falling, rolling, getting up, basic throws. Not bad. Not bad at all. And the instructor actually seemed open to answering my questions. And to top it off, they offer students $50 off the monthly fee. I'm liking the place, and will probably start in a few weeks. Anyone have any comments on this dojo? It's supposed to be pretty well known, and the fact that it's USAF East seems to mean it follows the style of the original founder. What does that signify?

    Thanks guys
     
  16. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #16
    Aikikai is broadly the traditional form of Aikido as practiced by the Founder O'Sensei or Morihei Ueshiba, USAF is the United States Aikido federation, (not the air force), there's a fellow called Chiba Shihan (Shihan means Master Instructor, one up from sensei) who was a pupil of Morihei Ueshiba in Japan and was charged with spreading Aikido into Europe and America in the 60's and 70's.

    Traditional Aikido is basically concerned with the art of Aikido, and as a martial art only as a corollary of the training, (although Morihei Ueshiba was the baddest mofo on the block by all accounts, used to headbutt trees for fun...).

    I study Tomiki Aikido, which was begun by another pupil of O'sensei, Kenji Tomiki who wanted to introduce competition into Aikido in the same way Judo had, Tomiki is largely concerned with effective technique and tends to eschew the more spiritual side of the art in favour of kick-ass technique (which isn't to say traditional Aikido can't bust you up good)

    I also study Daito Ryu which is a modern form adopted by Japanese and French riot police as a very effective street fighting system based on the Yoshinkan style..

    Check out a book called "Angry White Pyjamas" by Robert Twigger for a good intro to what modern Aikido can be (it's Yoshinkan, another modern system)

    By starting with Aikikai you're getting the low down on Ueshiba-designed Aikido. It's a good place to start, and not a bad place to make a career, it depends on what you like in Aikido.
     
  17. ravenvii thread starter macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #17
    So, if I go to the Aikikai for now, and end up going to a Aikido school teaching a different style during college, will it be easy to transition back and forth? Or is it practically a different martial art? I mean, if I go to the Aikikai now, will I have to be strict on getting a instructor in the USAF/Ueshiba style?

    Oh, and I'd love to compete eventually. If I go with the Aikikai school, will I still be able to compete? Does taking part in competitions have to be as a part of a school?

    (And yeah I'm aware Ueshiba is a bad mother, I've seen a video of him flipping like 10 guys at the same time.)
     
  18. Toreador93 macrumors regular

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    Sep 14, 2003
    #18
    Though not very helpful to this thread, I just wanted to say that I've taken Aikido, and loved it. I just didn't like the dojo I attended. Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of martial art schools around here.

    I personally like Aikido more than many other martial arts because you learn by practicing...and being the uke doesn't hurt too bad if you know what you're doing. I've also done some Iado, which looks impressive even with little training.
     
  19. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    #19
    I've trained in Kung Fu for a couple of years, but I'm not too familiar with Aikido so I have a question and a comment.

    Question: I have friend who trained for a couple of years in aikido and although he was in no way amazing (sorry buddy), he knew everything he was taught fairly well. However, whenever we spar and I start pulling out the kicks on his ass, he is rarely ever able to defend against them very well so I end up winning most of the time. Is that generally a weakness of Aikido, or is it because he's just not all that great?

    Comment: As far as the required training time for Kung Fu goes, it also takes forever before you're any good at it. My teacher keeps telling me that to become proficient, you need at least 6-10 years of kung fu. Of course, it's that or you can go to china to attend a full time kung fu training camp and learn it all in a year :). The martial art is useful for self defence, but if you're tackled by a good grappler or wrestler, you're gone. I would have to say that Krav Maga and a little bit of wrestling tops them all in terms of street fighting usefulness. Krav Maga was developed for the Israeli army for hand-to-hand combat and it's designed to be used to disarm attackers of knives or guns and generally kill or incapacitate your opponent as quickly as possible. The wrestling comes in handy when you get tackled (which happens a lot in street fights).
     
  20. BakedBeans macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    What's Your Favorite Posish
    #20
    i used to practice tang soo do (soo bahk do), the style that tea kwon do derives from. was ready to go for my first dan black (midnight blue) belt but unforseen circumstances made me give it up :(

    i always wanted to try kung fu out - just never have
     
  21. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #21
    I should start up martial arts again, I'm getting very out of shape. I've done all sorts of Kung Fu in the past, but my love is contemporary Wushu. Good stuff. :)

    scem0
     
  22. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    Location:
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    #22
    Krav Maga has roots in Aikido and Ju-jitsu, as well as general SAS type dirty tricks, it isn't a martial art as such, it's mainly just martial, and very difficult to practice properly, because it is designed to kill.

    Your friends aikido probably just wasn't developed enough to deal with unfamiliar attacks like kicks, most aikido is practiced from grasps or simulated sword, staff or knife attacks. I love a kicking style, all that dynamic motion and the attackers only on one leg, move to the inside and watch them fall over... :D It's not quite that simple, but good aikido will deal with any attack short of distance firearms.

    If you get within the radius made by the elbow or knee of the attacker, the attack becomes much less effective, if you control that joint, then you control the balance of the attacker, if you have his balance you have him.

    Most people concentrate on defending against the hand or foot in a striking attack, aikido attempts to ignore them and go for the elbow/knee/shoulder of the striking limb, it's not moving as fast or as far. Try it, get you sparring partner to throw a snap punch or kick and try to grab the hand or foot, you'll get it sometime, but the moment your attacker knows he has a grappler he'll be wary, and it's almost impossible. Then try stepping outside the line of the attack to the shoulder (this is called Irimi or entering) and you can grab the elbow or shoulder, or strike to the head, or simply grab the knee and upend him.

    Sure you have to be able to see the attack style coming, but that happens with practice, you step inside a roundhouse kick, outside a thrust or snap kick, (inside as well), and so on. This closing or entering makes the grappling and throwing arts deadly in trained hands.

    Your buddy will get there, he's just not used to your attack, plus he can't use full aikido, cos you don't know how to fall properly and he'll hurt you.
     
  23. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #23
    No. basic technique is very similar, details vary, as do names of techniques.

    I practice Tomiki, but often train with traditional and unconventional styles to, the weapons-rich Iwama style is great, but there are no clubs near me.

    As for competitions, it depends on your club, many will hold stylistic competitions, where performing katas is judged but no combat occurs.

    Get you first 2 or 3 years out the way first, get really fit and then take a look around. It took me 5 years to get my 1st Dan in Aikido, 2.5 in Karate, and I know which is more useful in a fight.
     
  24. ravenvii thread starter macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #24
    Thanks! One more question (sorry) - do ranks carry over from style to style? Or will you essentially lose your progress when you switch to another school?

    And a more personal question, how often do you practice, WinterMute? Just curious is all.

    Thanks for the great comments/answers!
     
  25. MentalFabric macrumors 6502

    MentalFabric

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    Mar 10, 2004
    #25
    you basically lose your progress unless it's the same school and you keep your papers, but it's faster to advance in the next school i guess :)
     

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