The Monaco GP Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by iGav, May 22, 2004.

  1. iGav macrumors G3

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    #1
    So then... it's that time of year again... the uber-glitzy jewel in F1's crown :D not necessarily always the greatest of races, although there has been a few, '84, '87, '88, '92, '96... but generally there needs to be rain for the Monaco GP to really liven up, either way it remains one of my favourite F1 events of the year, along with the first race of a season, Suzuka (usually a decider of the Championship) and Spa (the greatest F1 circuit in use, and second only to the legendary 'Ring) :D

    So far the boy schumi has topped all timed practice sessions and is looking smooth and especially in sector 2 and the swimming pool complex, awesomely fast... in the same way the Senna used to in that same section of tarmac ;)

    Records he could break after this GP... well he could be the first ever to win the first 6 GP's in a season, he currently holds the record with Nigel Mansell with 5 wins (1992).

    And he'll also match Ayrton Senna's 6 Wins at the Principality if he can pull it off. :)

    Hopefully he'll also pull off a 60th Pole Position, putting him only 5 behind Senna's record (the one I really want to see Schumi get) :D

    Either way, I'll be looking forward to sitting down with a roast dinner (it's a Monaco GP tradition) at 1pm... and hopefully another Scuderia/Schumi win.

    Thoughts???
     
  2. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #2
    :D
     

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  3. virividox macrumors 601

    virividox

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    #3
    if he gets pole and wins it, chalk up another record
     
  4. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #4
    Well, he hasn't got pole :( But I'm sure he'll pull it back in the pits or sumthin, c'mon Schumy!
     
  5. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #5
    Wowser... well that was an manic qually session... :eek: :p I'm thinking the Renaults and BAR are running alittle light (1-2 laps less than Schumi), but either way it's looking like it's going to be an interesting race... The Bridgestones seem to have excellent consistancy though, so hopefully when it comes to the stops, things might changed.

    Since the circuit has been changed, it looks like there's a couple of overtaking places, 1st is after the Tunnel at the Nouvelle Chicane and then the from the Swimming Pool complex to La Rascasse.

    Either way... it's looking like an oustanding race! :D
     
  6. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #6
    Yes it does. Wow ! Took a long long time this year.
     
  7. Gee macrumors 65816

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  8. Blackstealth macrumors regular

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    #8
    Schumi Doesn't Do It Again

    Now that was what I call a race, plenty of incidents and a nail biting last few laps. Just a shame Jenson couldn't make it past Trulli at the end, especially as he got so close.
     
  9. emdotdee macrumors regular

    emdotdee

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  10. Diatribe macrumors 601

    Diatribe

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    #10
    This is going to be interesting... this is going to cause a lot of arguments about who is the guilty one. Though I agree this was an exiting GP I still think it is going to be hard to keep Schumacher from winnig his 7th championship.
     
  11. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #11
    OK. Now we have two thread about the Monaco GP. Here is the other one:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=853521#post853521

    But for the race. It was really great and exciting. Finally. After a lot of boring ones.

    And it is really clearly Montoyas fault. Schumi was in lead after the pace car and he makes the pace. He braked to warm up his brakes after several round behind the safety car. Monotya hit him. And I think it was on purpose because he said after the last races that it would be good if someone is doing something like that.
     
  12. Blackstealth macrumors regular

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    #12
    I'd say blame fell squarely on Schumi, for a number of reasons;

    1) Everyone knows Montoya is used that that kinda situation from cart racing, and we all know he likes to get up close to take advantage of the rolling start.

    2) If Schumi had realised this he might have checked his mirrors before tapping the brakes. Unless he did it as a frightener - like you do to tailgaters on the motorway - however he obviously forgot that F1 cars do not have brake lights :rolleyes:

    3) Admittedly Montoya said he didn't see Schumi braking until it was too late, but without those brake lights and with only a couple car lengths of spacing at those kinds of speeds, then what else was he to do? Try and squeeze past or just rear-end him? The fact that it narrowed and Schumi effectively bounced off him was just bad luck - I'd have tried squeezing down the side in the same situtation. A bit of forward thinking on Schumi's part would have gone a long way...

    4) Through the tunnel is usually 160-180mph flat out, even behind the safety car it's taken at quite a lick and no-one would be expecting anyone else to be braking in what's as good as straight section. Why brake in a 100mph+ section when his usual trick is to hang back from the safety car, bury the throttle and then brake before the rest of the pack catches up.

    Let's face it Schumi dropped his guard, make a rookie mistake and paid for it. And to be honest I think most people found the scrap between Trulli and Button far more enjoyable than watching Schumi lead trouble-free for the rest of the race.
     
  13. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #13
    corr blimey what a race... :D Trulli drove a quality race, outpacing Alonso yet again... which is very surprising considering how hyped Alonso is.

    Couple of thoughts... Sato jumped the start, why wasn't he pulled in for a drive through?? then why the f**k didn't BAR pull him in, they'd have seen from telemetry that the Honda was going to blow, and Fisi was very, very lucky not to have been killed if the Sauber had landed on the actual barrier with his head :eek: :rolleyes:

    Why was the race red flagged?? and then the Safety Car came out??

    What's going down with Ralf?? the guys a serious danger, and I'm expecting him to atleast have a 1 race suspension from this... and like BAR, what the f**k were Williams doing not pulling him in, when they knew something terminal was wrong with the car. :rolleyes:

    As for Montoya... :rolleyes: for the love of Christ... :rolleyes:

    As for Schumi, the dice just didn't roll his way this time... what with the second Safety Car messing up his strat, but boy, was he mighty towards the end of his 1st stint putting in fastest lap after fastest lap (easily the quickest of the race) and blitzing all comers, first non-finish since Brazil at the start of last season as well... that in itself is pretty incredible! :D

    Button only drove a solid race... again he'd qualified on a significantly lighter fuel load which crippled him in the race, he wasn't especially fast (his quickest lap 8 tenths slower than Schumi's) and his placing was somewhat flattered by the unusual circumstances (Alonso, Schumacher, 2nd SC) otherwise he'd really have been 4th... but you have to make the most of cards dealt, and he did that superbly.

    Either way, Nurburgring next week... 2 races back-to-back, oooh, I feel all spoiled! :p
     
  14. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #14
    I'm with Blundell on this one Blackstealth, in a SC period the leader controls the pack and the pace of the pack.

    1) Well it ain't CART, and they were only just half way around the lap, not coming to the final corner ready to restart the race ;) Montoya shouldn't have been so close, doing that speed... they weren't racing at this point.

    2) Because Schu would probably gone into the back of the safety car, had he not hit his brakes, he was after all warming up his brakes like the rest of the field were doing at exactly the same time, and do on both the warm lap and SC periods.

    3) Montoya was travelling at a totally different speed to Schumacher, looked to me like he wasn't paying attention fully, and he knew the SC wasn't that far infront of Schumacher, considering he would have seen it leading Schu for the previous several laps, he knew it was there, and could see it. At this time, they WEREN'T racing.

    4) Behind the safety car it was probably doing 80mph, 100 less than usual, and yes he should have been expecting Schu to be warming up his brakes, after all it's EXACTLY like the warm-up lap before a race, when all the drivers do it.. the same way as all the drivers behind him were doing it (and they didn't take out another car).

    I'm thinking had it been the other way round, everybody would have been calling for Schu to be banned for a race... :rolleyes:
     
  15. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #15
    Let's face it. You are wrong. As I said previously - Montoya was much to near behind Schumi - its correct that the restart was coming. But that was much too early to drive that near behind him, and instead of braking himself he managed to shoot him out of the race.

    Schumi was in the lead. And he makes the pace. If you are driving behind you have to watch. Period. Montoyas fault. We will see what the FIA says.
     
  16. Blackstealth macrumors regular

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    #16
    We'll agree to disagree on this one, you Schumi lovers can blame it on Montoya. Us Schumi haters will blame it on the arrogant bar steward himself, and congratulate Montoya on making a good move
     
  17. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #17
    *bangs head on table* how can taking someone out under SC Conditions be a good move?? it's not like they were racing at that time! :eek: :p :p

    If it'd been the other way round, people WOULD still be blaming Schu, and saying that Montoya did nothing wrong, as he was infront, and Schu should be banned for hitting him under Safety Car conditions. :rolleyes:

    The 2 threads really need merging though... some good discussions going on. :)
     
  18. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #18
    We definitly disagree on our support for the best driver ever. But still - if you don't like Schumi - how can you say that its a good move shooting another driver out of the race in a SC situation.

    Sorry. I still think thats un-sportive attitude. And from as well as from Montoya.
     
  19. Blackstealth macrumors regular

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    #19
    In that it's a choice between plant your nose cone in the other guys gearbox or try and squeeze down the side? :rolleyes:

    Best driver ever :eek: ? That's drinking far too much of the Shumi Kool-aid, are you trying to tell us he's a greater driver than Fangio, Clark, Prost or Senna?

    I give up... :confused:
     
  20. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #20
    Michael Schumacher
    WM Titles: 6
    Grand Prix total » 201
    Wins » 75
    2. » 34
    3. » 18
    4. » 9
    5. » 7
    6. » 5
    Pole Positions » 59
    First rows » 96
    Fastest laps » 58
    Leading rounds » 4216
    Leading km » 19796
    WM-pints total » 1088

    Nothing to add.
     
  21. JFreak macrumors 68040

    JFreak

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    #21
    that's many pints to drink for a driver ;)
     
  22. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #22
    Or the choice of not putting yourself in that situation during a SC period? ;)

    Montoya should not have been going so fast that he couldn't stop in the distance, it's not like they were racing at the time.

    Trulli has already said that Montoya was stuck on Schu's tail earlier in that same lap and he (Trulli) stayed right back because it looked like trouble.

    Maybe Montoya should have done what all the other drivers did, which was to hang back from the car infront so they can get a quick squirt on the throttle and brake without taking out another car. :rolleyes:


    It's hard to compare a driver between very different era's such as the 50's -00's, but do you think Fangio (a 40 something, overweight man) being able to drive one of todays F1 cars at the same speed as Schu for the same duration?? When even CART and NASCAR drivers can only do 10 laps before their necks can't take anymore G-Force?? and that the oldest driver in F1 is 36/7 (Panis).

    As for Prost, well Prost wasn't especially good in the rain, and that's deemed to be the REAL test of drivers skills (he refused to race in a couple, Adelaide 1989 for one) he wasn't also particularly that hot in qualifying either.

    He was however a very smooth and quick driver. People called him the Professor, because of his tacticle approach to driving, yet that very same tactical approach led him to losing the 1988 Championship to Senna because of the 11 best results rule. (Prost did infact have more points than Senna at the end of the year).

    As he showed in Suzuka in 1989, he was more than willing to take out another driver to win the championship. Remind you of anyone?? ;)

    As for Senna, well that's more of a toughie... Senna was insanely fast over one lap in qually (but it's accepted that he set up his cars more for qualifiying, and focused less on race set up, hence not very many fastest race laps under his name).

    He was great in the rain, everyone mentions Monaco 1984, when he was catching Prost at a serious rate of knots, however what many people forget is first he would have had to have caught Prost and overtaken him to win (unlikely in Monaco). The 2nd is that Steffan Bellof was catching both of them, and would have caught Senna. The second wet race people mention is Donnington 1993... exceptional... sure was. But no greater than Schu at Barcelona in 1996. ;)

    Senna was also prone to losing concentration and crashing out when leading unchallenged. Monaco 1988, Monza 1988, Adelaide 1990. (Schu has also been accused of this, but I can't remember Schu taking himself out of a race).

    However Suzuka 1990 will forever tarnish Senna's reputation, he used his car as a guided missle to take out another driver at 160mph plus, with packed grandstands all around, who was to say at that speed the car wouldn't have flipped up and into the crowd with the sudden loss of downforce (remember when Patrese's accident in Portugal in 1992, when his car went skyward and didn't touch the ground for 100 metres, or that Mercedes Sportscar a few year ago, that flipped over several times straight into a forest.)

    That one single move... was the most stupid in the history of the sport. Senna admitted it the following year, and should have had the WDC stripped from him, much like how Schu was disqualified from the 1997 season. Senna was WAAAAYYYYYYYYYY more dirty than Schu... WAAAAYYYYYYYYY more dirty, you only have to trace his race history to see that.

    We'll never know who ultimately was the better driver between the 2, they were at different stages in there career, with Schu just starting and Senna approaching his mid-30's.

    What we do know however is that in Schu's first full year in F1 he finished higher in the WDC than Senna. The following year Senna reversed it making it one all after 2 seasons.

    And then we come to 1994. Senna made an error taking himself out in Brazil whilst trying to catch Schu, got hit from behind in the Pacific GP (hit from behind, obviously Senna's fault.. heheh) and made (as is generally excepted now) a fatal driving error under pressure from Schu at Imola.

    Clark however, was a god given genius behind the wheel. And a proper gentleman too, by all accounts ;)
     

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