The Ninety Nanometer Speed-bump

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Jul 8, 2004.

  1. macrumors bot

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    #1
  2. macrumors regular

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    #2
    I stopped reading when I got to "niggardly"...

    LOL.

    Just kidding. Good article, allthough I wasn't "freaked" when 3gz didn't come out. I personally am confident in the Apple/IBM relationship.

    IBM has the know-how and the "intrest" in the Apple business that moto just didn't have. After 5 years with the G4 (even though I feel that it was a good chip for the time - just not "kept up"), it seemed that moto just lost interest. It felt like they just wanted to make cell phone chips and thats it.

    IBM on the otherhand is not new to the high-end chip market. I think we have a lot of good years ahead of us.
     
  3. macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #3
    Same here. I came across niggardly and paused. Read it again. Then again. Then proceeded on. 10 GHz, oh yea - now we're cookin'!
     
  4. macrumors 6502

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    #4
    10 GHZ!, these are the kinds of articles i love.
     
  5. macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    #5
    10GHZ...HOLY FLASHBACKS....(thanks to whom i borrowed that from)
    how can ibm tell that there going to be at 10ghz in 3 1/2 years....
     
  6. Administrator

    Knox

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    #6
    I did wonder why that site looked familar, then i remembered. That was the one that was copying MR articles and forum posts a while back...
     
  7. macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #7
    Mathematics
     
  8. macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #8
    A couple years ago I had a discussion with an electrical engineer in Japan about moving to ever shrinking chip die processes. We generally agreed that the industry would hit a wall at some point. We thought at the time that continuing to shrink would require increasing technological challenges that would eventually make it much more economical to use other methods such as multiple cores to increase performance at some point. We only disagreed on the timing of the difficulties. He thought that chip makers would be safe until they reached close to 50nm but I thought they were due for some trouble much sooner around 100nm.

    He later thought that the move to 90nm would go without a hitch. I however thought that things were moving too fast when you consider the percentage based decrease in surface area and that a more conservative shrink was wiser at first, such as to 110nm. He assured me that the engineers at Intel and IBM are very smart and could handle it. I took his word for it since he knew more about it than I.

    I only mention this because I think that we may continue to see delays with each shrink due to technological challenges. I doubt the move to a 65nm die process will go smoothly. :(
     
  9. macrumors G4

    wrldwzrd89

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    #9
    I strongly suspect you'll be right when the move to 65nm comes. The industry wouldn't go to 110nm first - they've been in a sort of pattern as far as die shrinks are concerned. I suspect it's gone something like this in the past: ..., 720nm, 520nm, 360nm, 260nm, 180nm, 130nm. We're at 90nm now. I see no reason why this pattern wouldn't continue: 65nm, 45nm, 32nm, 22nm, 16nm, 11nm, 8nm, 5nm, 4nm, ...
     
  10. macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    #10
    G3 max clock of 450 Mhz? That was the max clock for the Blue & White.
    iBook G3 went up to 900 MHz.
     

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  11. macrumors G4

    wrldwzrd89

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    #11
    450 MHz was the PLANNED maximum clock for the G3. Due to the situation with the iBook, the ACTUAL max clock was twice that (900 MHz). Nobody was expecting the iBooks to stay G3 for so long - that only happened because of Motorola's G4 processor debacle at 500 MHz, plus all the other trouble they had with the G4.
     
  12. macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    #12
    well, it's encouraging, if this guy is right...certainly, we're not as bad off now as we were with moto.
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    g4cubed

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    #13
    I stopped a had to look up the meaning :rolleyes:
    I've heard it used before but wasn't sure. And for anyone else,here:

    nig·gard·ly
    adj.
    1.) Grudging and petty in giving or spending.
    2.) Meanly small; scanty or meager: left the waiter a niggardly tip.

    I can only hope that we hit speeds like 10GHz in 3-4 years :D
     
  14. macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    #14
    is that the type of maths that is idealistic...like sj's maths of this time next year we will be at 3ghz ect ect.... you get my meaning though...
    .5ghz jump this year...next year 3ghz jump...hmmmm ;)
     
  15. macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #15
    Actually, I believe at least one fab did move to 110nm. However, I think only less complicated ICs are produced there - no cpus.

    I wouldn't exactly say the industry has completed the transition to 90nm yet. Yields are still low and the vast majority of chips are still built at 130nm and 180nm. 110nm is about as small as you can go before you need exotic materials and designs to counteract the leakage problem. Anyways, this is sort of 20/20 hindsight and not a suggestion for current action. Once you get down to about 45nm some really wierd effects start to appear that I am hardly expert enough to explain well.
     
  16. macrumors 6502a

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    #16
     
  17. macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    Quad 2.5Ghz dual core G5 next tuesday! :p

    Actually I think even Little Endian's timeline may be overly optimistic. :(
     
  18. macrumors 603

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    Watch...IBM will have more problems with the 90nm chip and we'll only be at 6GHz by WWDC 2008. Actually, a dual 6.0GHz by then doesn't sound too bad, since now that IBM has had its first successful experience with liquid cooling in a 90nm machine and can learn from there, I feel that Intel is going to struggle a little more than IBM will.
     
  19. macrumors 6502

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    #19
    It's a valid word, and does not have negro ("black") as a root word. It was catapulted to semifame when some complete idiot made a (successful?) lawsuit for discrimination against someone who used the word.

    People, we have words. They sometimes sound similar to other words. Get over it.

    ~J
     
  20. macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #20
    i am in the process of suing the keebler elves. i feel threatened and discriminated against by their use of the word cracker.
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Bah! Must we all think in politically correct terms everytime we see something?

    Besides, >6GHz isn't excessively hard to achieve, the embedded world has just started fully moving into that area (mainly in things like high speed, high volume telco switches).

    Give them some time, and you'll have that dual core, dual processor system running at 10GHz ;)
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    g4cubed

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    #22
    Politically What???

    I wasn't thinking in a politically correct view.

    I was thinking "what the hell does this word mean". So I looked in a dictionary,
    it's something you do when you're unsure of what a word means.
    A lot of words sound derogatory but aren't, such as this.

    Which, and I'm only guessing by your comment, is your way of thinking.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    You get that way when the NAACP is constantly telling you that all Southerns are racists...Ah well, I just hate being politically correct in any case, why else would I enjoy using a computer that has a <25% market share in any market? ;)
    (Ok, there are lots of other reasons I use a mac...;)
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #24
    While AMD has not made any official releases, a few sites such as VR-Zone and Xtreme Systems have already gotten engineering samples of the 90nm part dubbed the "Winchester".

    Commentary by overclockers.com can be found here:
    http://www.overclockers.com/tips00615/

    http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=982&s=1
    @ VR Zone, they found that the numerous modifications make the 90nm faster than the current 130nm ones (based on Socket 939). These are basically the recent 3500+ and 3800+ (2.2 and 2.4Ghz respectively).
     

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