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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by treblah, Mar 8, 2006.
From the March 13th 2006, Time magazine Numbers column:
I've always thought that the soldiers' priority was the mission, and not politics at all.
I could think of several very practical reasons why the military as a whole, and the soldier as an individual would eshew politics - even if that involved tacitly accepting a proposition that wasn't true.
The reason the troops are there is largely irrelevant to those same troops. They made an oath to serve their country. I'm sure some think it's ********, but they probably keep that to themselves.
Numbers according to Zogby
Both the Time and Zogby poll results are maddening. On the one hand, an obviously growing number of troops want to pull out, and pull out fairly fast. OTOH, an appallingly high number of them (85-90%) still believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.
These are the guys who are protecting our country?
It's not unlike finding out that 90% of your city's police and firemen believe in UFOs and Santa Claus.
Once again, what soldiers do or do not believe is irrelevant to their task at hand - to be soldiers and accomplish their objectives.
The military purposefully sublimates the individual to the group, as a functional necessity - and it should not be surprising that (a) most soldiers don't care about Politics, and (b) that the military environment is inherently pro-us in terms of propaganda - even if it is passive (such as allowing a falsehood to go uncorrected).
I don't see what is so surprising here...
This poll must not have included Air Force. I don't know one person that thinks that.
You know what's odd. Many people still believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11. But most people still want us to pull out of Iraq. It doesn't even matter why we're there anymore (and we know it had little if anything to do with 9/11), people see how bad it's gotten and continues to get, and the fact that we're still there proves that things aren't going well. And are getting worse. We don't want our troops there, they don't want to be there, the Iraqis don't want us there... why aren't we leaving? Most of us have accepted that we've lost. We aren't going to win this. I don't even think we can "win".
But some people have no problem sending wave after wave of our troops to be hurt or killed for ill defined reasons against unsurmountable odds, and yet I'm the traitor who doesn't support the troops because I want them home. Said it before, I'll say it again, they don't support the troops, they support the war. Much different.
The reason we're still in Iraq is not because the neocons believe in the war, it's because they refuse to acknowledge that their ideology is wrong.
The thought they could walk in and impose order in Iraq, gain allies around the world, consolidate power at home through their brilliance and cunning, and lock in huge kickbacks to their friends. So far, they've only accomplished the kickbacks, but have otherwise failed.
But if they give up their neocon dream of world domination/peace through superior firepower, they'll have to admit they were wrong and then lose what power they still have. They can't allow that to happen.
Take any person with a deep-seated supernatural belief and tell them they're wrong. They'll deny it despite any and all evidence to the contrary. And in this case, it's not just their beliefs, but their power and the cashflow dependent on them being right.
no, "the world" knew before the whole thing started, ****wad. only a bunch of war-mongering Fearites obstensibly learned something, though i myself fear they didn't even learn anything in the abstract.
i await your call to invade iran.
Its hard enough for people over here to sort out truth and lies. Imagine doing it in the middle of a desert when the government is controlling your access it info.
skunk, though you might like to see some of paul krugman's latest:
All I have to say is, it's about fricken time. Took them long enough, but here it is, the backlash. Better late then never I guess.
Apparently Tim McGraw and his wife Faith Hill are fed up too. http://www.hoffmania.com/blog/2006/03/tim_mcgraw_and_.html Hope they didn't just Dixie Chicks themselves, but maybe people will actually listen to folks like them.