The Right Message

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #1
    As little as I agree with Blair's choice in Iraq, I do think this is an admirably balanced view which the NeoCons should learn by heart before they open their deceitful mouths again:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/09/london.attacks.blair.ap/index.html/


    Why don't we hear any US spokesmen saying this? Note the absence of references to saturation bombing and revenge...
     
  2. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    Speaking of "telling it like it is".
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4665133.stm

     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    Yeah, blame poverty. But then wonder why is it that the leaders of the hate-the-west are among their highest educated and richest. They are the ones who make use of the poverty-stricken as foot-soldiers in this terrorism.

    I have read that the total export value of all the mideastern Islamic countries is barely equal to that of Finland--except for oil. That's not the fault of the west. They're no different from Mexico, insofar as their own internal socio-economic systems do not create a way for the poor to bootstrap themselves upward into what we in the US consider a middle economic class.

    'Rat
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #4
    It's hard to refute what he says. The roots of terrorism certainly are attributable to American cold war policies, but as 'Rat says, the poor in Islamic countries are poor mostly because and authoritarian regimes.

    Oil corrupts.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    No, it's not the fault of the West. We do, however; exploit the way in which those leaders exploit their own people. You have to admit that one of our cold war strategies was to play one Arab country off another to keep them from joining forces against us. Our country is more than willing to let our corporations trade with, and prop up, these very same corrupt governments you are rightly complaining about.

    There's plenty of blame to go 'round. Question is, how do we convince them to hate us less?
     
  6. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    The nineteen 9/11 hijackers didn't seem poor to me - they seemed like middle class Saudi citizens. And anyway, we don't have to speculate about why we hate us - bin Laden already said why in many of his tapes. It's because we support Israel, the Saudis, Pakistan, and other secular and regimes in the middle east and asia.

    What he didn't say is that the reason we support regimes like that is to prevent people like him from taking over the muslim countries and turning them into the same hell on earth that Afghanistan was.
     
  7. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Right. They're just a different hell on earth. "It may be hell on earth, but it's our hell on earth".
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  9. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    Yeah. Other peoples' resources are so cumbersome.
     
  10. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

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    #10
    Yeah, that is why the US is/was so hot-in-the-crotch about Venezuela. When you're the 5th largest oil exporter and you want to increase your royalty cut from 16%-30+%, you're gonna cause the US oil execs to choke on their chateaubriand. So what do they do about it? Try a coup - check. Recall effort - check. Elimination is now the only viable option. The people here have already been sensitized to it. Whenever US administrations (democrat or republican) fall out of favor with South American guvments, you'll notice a lot of C-word dropping in the papes. The C-word of course is Castro. I mean, what is the propaganda machine here gonna do when this guy bites it? Admins and newspapers have gotten more mileage out of Castro then a coked up Segway operator - "Ohh, he used to booze it with Castro" or "old buddy Castro."

    All the more reason to go to an alternative energy source. Let everyone else fight over the last drop. The cable giants here could set up a pay-per-view of the last days. Capture all the donnybrooking, the knees to the face, the open-hand neck chops, etc. Ratings would go through the roof...
     
  11. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #11
    Our leaders are among the richest and highest educated. Isn't helping us any. Not saying it's right. Just something to think about. But, you know, I'm sure they just hate our freedom.
     
  12. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Lack of democracy and Middle East conflict? I didn't realize those were necessary components of terrorism. Someone should have told Timothy McVeigh.
     
  13. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Was he a terrorist?
     
  14. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Well, what would you call him. Killing 168 people with a truck bomb counts in my book.
    Death= check
    Destruction= check
    Terror= check
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    Most definetly. And a Christian one to boot, but you won't hear too many people play up his particular brand of Christianity and how that factors into his act of terror. But you'll hear all about how Islam makes people into terrorists. :rolleyes:
     
  16. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Isn't there a different word for someone who just blows up a building? Surely a terrorist uses terror. Didn't he just want to blow up a building and kill as many federal employees as possible? I'm sorry if I'm being a bit pedantic - it's happened before - but it seems to me that Oklahoma was different. "Terrorist" doesn't really fit, does it? Seems to me the term is becoming less meaningful as it becomes a portmanteau word for anyone not in uniform.
     
  17. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I agree, the word is abused more than "insurgents."

    Link


    The way I read this, I feel that he was a terrorist. He destroyed a federal building for political/ideological reasons with the intent to spread fear and panic. It was a long time ago, but I remember fear and terror, especially where I live, 90 miles away. I am fairly sure the rest of the US was shook up by this as well. Since he was captured so quickly, we really have no idea what his future plans were, but he was connected to groups of people with similar ideology. I don't think you would be stretching the definition too far to include him.
    My original comment was that terrorists are not middle eastern and can come from "democratic" nations. I thought it was a rather narrow and even racist remark from Mr Blair, but perhaps he was referring specifically to "terrorism centered in the Middle East"
     
  18. feakbeak macrumors 6502a

    feakbeak

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    #18
    I was never a proponent of the US/UK's actions in Iraq. From the speeches I've heard, Tony Blair seems to be a talented speaker. Although there is still some of the typical political propaganda mixed in Blair's messages are much more rational than what American's hear from the Bush administration.

    All we get is a confused mixture of catch phrases that have little meaning. “Spreading freedom and democracy, destroying evil regimes, stay the course, they hate us because of our freedom... blah, blah blah.” We heard no apology for the massive intelligence failure that was the basis for our attack on Iraq. Apparently, nobody in our government is accountable for such gross errors. The part that really amazes me is how the media and vast majority of American citizens are not outraged by this obvious lack of accountability.
     
  19. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #19
    Still just words. Actions speak louder. What good are pretty words when what actually happens turns out to be such a mess? Bush has said some nice things too.
     
  20. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #20
    Why should we care what they think of us? We are the advanced ones. They should care what we think of them.
     
  21. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    or something like that...
     
  22. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    Is this a joke?
     
  23. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Well put.
     
  24. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #24
    A good collection of pics. All of which make me care even less what they think.
     
  25. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #25
    No - good people should not have to care what evil people think of them.
     

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