The ultimate goal of the Iraq war revealed

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    The ultimate goal of the Iraq war? Oil, surely. You knew that, I knew that, only the purblind among us continue to deny it.

    But I had no idea of the details, just revealed in a report by a group of UK and US policy experts. The report, Crude Designs: the ripoff of Iraq's oil wealth, describes the secret plans that have been going on behind the scenes.

    What plans? I'll let columnist Susan Ives' article explain it:

    So now we know not only the cost of cheap oil (2100+ lives), but exactly who's going to get it, how they're going to do it, and how much they stand to make off it.

    Would somebody like to explain to me again why I should be proud of my country? :mad:
     
  2. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #2
    Oh, Thomas, please please recount your figure for the cost in lives to include the Iraqi military and civilian casualties as well, and the cost to the civilian population in destroyed economy and civic infrastructure.
     
  3. Danksi macrumors 68000

    Danksi

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    #3
    Wasn't this raised in Mike Moore's latest film? The bit where they're all sat in a conference room being given presentations around backing the invasion and getting their rewards from the oil?

    I know Mike Moore's approaches are somewhat lazy, but he does raise interesting questions, that require further investigation.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    When do impeachmenet hearings begin? I'm serious.
     
  5. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #5
    and...

    I hate that we are at war. I hate that we have lost men and women. I hate that inocent people have died.

    I know this will sound bad, but what is the cost of taking out evil (aka Saddam). I can't put a price on it. And it is possible the people of iraq do want us out. But the iraq gov't doesnt....yet.

    Oil...even if it was the primary reason (which it should not have been) it is vitally important. I personaly think that America should hord all the oil from iraq for itself and it's allies.

    The real wars have yet to be fought. N. Korea and China. And for those of you who have not noticed. China is buying up everything like whole oil companies that use to sell everything to the US, now it is going to China.

    Believe me, China knows how to crush america, take out it's economy, and let the media do the rest.

    I truly hop oil was never the primary reason for war, but depending on if you are a chess player, taking iraq might have been the right move. Sacrifice the pawn to save the king.
     
  6. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #6
    You are right, of course. I was looking at the last paragraph of that Susan Ives article as I wrote that, and not thinking about the terrible toll the war has taken beyond the United States. My apologies.

    The Iraqi body count? Said to be 27,000-30,000. The cost to their economy? Well, as the article states, if they think they're being screwed now...
     
  7. katchow macrumors 6502

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    #7
    if the king holds itself to no higher moral standard than any other peice, why bother saving him?
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    And who is it that keeps selling pieces of America? Who is it that outsources textiles, manufacturing and other industries to China? Who keeps buying products from China? I'm afraid we only have ourselves to blame. Always thinking short-term and not long-term.
     
  9. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I think this article tries to tap into the anti-war outrage, but doesn't really make any economic sense whatsoever. If you own an oil field, whether in Iraq or Texas or Alaska, you want oil prices to be high, not low. That whole thing about wanting to flood the global markets with cheap oil is nonsensical.
     
  10. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #10
    The nonsensical reduces to: if I want what you own, contrary to Wallstreet's "greed is good".
     
  11. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let's say your name is Jed and you own an oil field. Would you like oil prices to be high, or would you like them to be low?

    Anybody who owns a commodity wants that commodity price to be high. You know, buy low, sell high and all that.
     
  12. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #12
    the article stated the purpose of flooding the market was to kill off the competition.
     
  13. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Which doesn't make sense either. Are the Saudis just going to get out of the oil business? Anyway, you can't kill off the competition without eliminating your own profitability.
     
  14. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #14
    And who's writing the check, mate?
     
  15. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #15
    The MegaCorporations run our Govt,,,,,, just isnt anything new. Pump millions into your favorite candidate and then you get to tell them how to vote or what needs to be done, Oil,Pharmacy,War,Border etc......why do you think our president just discovered our Border problem after 5 years and a war of his doing?
    Just more of the same from our corrupt, bought and paid for govt. We wouldnt even be in Iraq if it wasnt for OIL. Its all about the Corporations, it aint about the people,hasnt been for years. Its all about $$$
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    I don't think you were paying attention, Tristan: the Saudis pay $1.50 to extract a barrel, the US pays $13. If the price is low, it's not worth the US extracting it, but it still works for the Saudis. For example, if the oil price hadn't rocketed in the 70s, North Sea oil would never have been economical. Same goes for oil sands.
     
  17. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    You have 100 barrels of oil. You paid $1.50 per barrel. Would you rather sell them at $13.50 or $62.50? You guys are seriously overthinking this. It's that simple - high oil prices mean more money for people with large amounts of oil. The Saudis would be ecstatic if oil prices rose to $100 a barrel, as would everyone in Texas and Alaska and Venezuela.

    There is no situation in which someone with a lot of oil wants low oil prices. Only people who don't have oil want low oil prices. Trying to come up with a "business strategy" in which someone with an oil field is willing to lower the price of oil for a long time is complete and utter nonsense. Those kind of price wars only make sense in extremely rare circumstances, like if you know your competitor is undercapitalized and highly leveraged (i.e. airlines) and you have an immediate opportunity to push them out of the market. Even then it doesn't work, because eventually you raise prices, and another competitor emerges. Everyone with oil fields best served if they can keep the oil prices at current levels.

    I'm not arguing with the central point of the article, which is that oil was obviosuly a factor. Iraq is strategic in many ways, its location, natural resources, cultural ties, etc. But to bring in some weird anti-Saudi business strategy and prior oil ties is just a waste of time in the article. If Bush made his money selling vacuum its not like he'd be at war with Rwanda because they have a vacuum cleaner factory there. Iraq is strategic regardless of Bush's background, and one of the reasons its strategic is because there's $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the ground - at current prices.
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    clearly, the latter. but what's a good way to get away w/ inflated prices? killing off some the competition qualifies. that's all i'm saying.
     
  19. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    So the Saudis should sell their oil at $1.60 a barrel so everybody else will get out of the oil business? Mmmmkay... I'll let them know. I guess they never thought of that.
     
  20. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #20
    Not me...rich men, and CEO's who only care about bonuses and stock price.
     
  21. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #21
    The rising prices mean the oil sands in Canada are getting a lot of attention.

    Time to invade Canada. :eek:
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    c'mon, i never said that. i'm no expert in running multi-national corporations, all i did was ape what the author said and apply a little common business sense about the power of the monopoly.
     
  23. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #23
    Umm ...

    Walmart.

    Let's say your name is Jed. Let's say, Jed, that you can own all the oilfields in Texas and sell your oil at a high price, or, Jed, you can own all of the oilfields in Texas and Iraq but can only sell, initially, at a low price.

    Which would you take?

    Yeah. Such that ...

    People who don't have as much oil as they want and see a bounty of oil they can steal wouldn't mind lower oil prices. It's about bottom line profit and potential profit, not price per barrel.
     
  24. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    You're totally confusing the reseller business model with an ownership business model. When you own something, you can only sell it once. Oil in the ground can only be sold once, so you want to sell it for the highest price.

    Resellers (like retailers) have high fixed costs and a set amount of shelf space. Just like oil wells want to maximize the profit from their oil in the ground, retailers want to maximize their profit per shelf. If you can drop your prices a little and double turnover, it makes sense, and that's what Walmart does.

    Also, I really have tremendous difficulty seeing a scenario where someone will lower oil prices and push other people out of the oil market. The oil in the Saudi fields or Texas or whereever isn't going anywhere.
     
  25. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #25
    1. Start war in the middle east to drive up oil prices and generate record profits for oil companies/well owners to build up cash reserves.

    2. Sell wells/infrastructure to companies/well owners.

    3. Companies/well owners now supplied with an abundance of cheap oil slash prices to starve the competition.

    4. When competition is sufficiently starved make offers to buy their wells/infrastructure for generous amounts.

    5. Once most competition is bought out, inflate prices and enjoy profits and control of most of the world's oil supply.

    There are perfectly good reasons to sell for less money in the short run if you are looking at the long term possibilities.

    I love a good conspiracy theory.....
     

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