The US in big troubles

Discussion in 'Community' started by mymemory, Sep 3, 2002.

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  1. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    #1
    I think this is an important topic to discuss with you all, I would like tho know your point of view about the matter.

    Last week I was in some conference (here in my country) and one of the topics or the beganing of the conference started explaning an overall situation with the US stuck market. Basictly and what I remember of it was that in a 100 years the stuck market increased 1000 pints (in the US) and from early 70's it incresed about 10.000 points or so, all that because of offer and demand. Now the difference was that the first 1000 points where based on "real" products, I mean things in existance while the actual market is based on a "virtual" price based on "offer and demand", that means that most of the value of a company is not there ( Enron, .coms, etc).

    Now on the other hand there are 2 things going on at same time:
    1. The socialist/comunist parties and societys of the world are taking advantage of that to destroy the occidental economy because even the banks have they money invested in the stock market in place of having it in real goods.
    2. President Bush is trying to convence the world that is necessary to start a war, the reason of that is that a war move the economy and would work as a very nice cover-up to hide some real economic problems.

    Now, if my memory works fine, the Big Depresion of the 40's or 20's ( I do not remember) was caused by a 25% decresed of the stuck market when the values where real, now, just imagine a depresion over 50% now days.

    Comunism is taking over again, today in my country we are fighting agains it while international organizations are making us waisting or time whaiting for their help. In octuber there is gonna be a new (and powerfull) comunist leader in Brazil witch has connections with China, Irak, etc.

    Lets see then because the global future doesn't seem bright at all starting from here.

    Sorry from the spelling
     
  2. Rajj macrumors 6502a

    Rajj

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    #2
    Wow, your spelling is pathetic!!!!;) :D I'm just messin' with yah;)
    At any rate, President Bush, is trying to engage a war with Iraq without any physical proof of weapons of mass destruction (I love that word), which I think is crazy, because Russia and this country have the biggest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction, and you don’t see Germany or Great Britain coming after us!!!

    The United States should mind their own business, and focus on annihilating Osama instead of Iraq!!! Iraq has done nothing to the U.S. (minus the Persian Gulf, which the U.S. had no business going over there anyway) only to their own people, so if Suddam wants to gas his own country, then let him!!! That’s not our problem.

    That’s why Germany and Great Britain does not want to help the U.S. in this war, because the U.S. just wants the oil!!!



    On final note, The United States should take care of its citizens first, before trying to be the world police
     
  3. Rajj macrumors 6502a

    Rajj

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    #3
    President Bush is the pinnacle of ineptitude!!!

    ‘Nuff said ;) :p
     
  4. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #4
    The Great depression-1929, please be more informed. A simple sherlock search would have saved you some embarrassment.

    >That’s why Germany and Great Britain does not want to help the U.S. in this war, because the U.S. just wants the oil!!!

    The United States is dependant on foreign oil, with out it, everyone's economy will hit the *******. The US economy reaches wider than most people know it, maybe this will change when the euro finally surpasses the dollar. Then foreign investors will look to the United European countries for financial investment, and a great migration into the cities there will occur.

    Meanwhile, the US will go into a depression, and we will finally have to back out of everyone's country to defend our own boarders. Leaving the new wealthy countries to take their place as UN troops, and peace makers (note: this will not happen, and many smaller regimes will see full war, the likes of which have not been seen since the dark ages w/serf vs serf)

    Also, The major reasons we find our troops in every little country is that we just have a hard time sitting back and seeing "leaders" hurt, mame and kill innocent civilians in their country. ie, trade stipulations against China, due to their overwhelming gross neglect for human life.
     
  5. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #5
    >Now, if my memory works fine, the Big Depresion of the 40's or 20's ( I do not remember)

    see, in 1940, we were gearing up to jump into WWI, you know, to save the day again for several countries you all say we have no business helping out.

    Then again, it took the US to turn our back on the impending Japanese attacks at Pearl Harbor (WWII now) to get the backing of our military personal, and the country populous as a whole to jump into Europe's new war.

    Say that we didn't get into either of those, what would have happened? Any speculation where France wqould be right now? I bet you'd be speaking German.

    So what makes our intervention in Kuwait that much different? What about when Iraq attaked Isral, and the US advised for no strike backs? Israel listened and did not comlicate the war even greater then.

    We are not a nation of fools and high-ho military idiots, we know what we are doing. This Iraq business is very tricky, Sept 11 was the first time we have been attacked on US soil, are we to forget? What then does Pearl Harbor mean? Those guys were more important?
     
  6. Rajj macrumors 6502a

    Rajj

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    #6
    The French don't like Americans anyway, so who cares what language France would be speaking!!!

    The point I am making is, that the United States spends billions of our hard earned tax dollars on inconsequential wars, to bring "peace", when all it does is cause hundreds of American families fatherless or motherless!!! And the only thing the families get is crisp, folded, refurbished flag!!! Where is the honor in that?



    As for as September 11th, what happened to all the patriotism? What happened to the flags on the trucks and cars?? Americans have gone back to their old selfish ways again!!
    ‘Nuff said.
    ;)
     
  7. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #7
    >The French don't like Americans anyway
    That's fine, they like it when we get 'em out of war, we're better then that.
    oh- and what's on Ellis Island?

    >that the United States spends billions
    sorry, its more than that. it will only take 12.6 billion to bring all our schools up to par, out military budget is 2 trillion

    >when all it does is cause hundreds of American families fatherless or motherless
    Soldiers know what is at stake, that's why they enlist. They have a belief in a "greater good" helping fellow kind.

    >As for as September 11th
    it's still there, no one has forgotten. nor will. People do not feel the need to paint their bodies w/red, white & blue. Do you feel we have done enough since then? You seem to bitch about our money & lives being spent for foreign military aid, then you complain about Sept 11th?
     
  8. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #8
    someones *cough* (xrhajj) *cough*bitching about america....and it seems the way its being done is childish. you know ive heard a lot of griping and whining in my time about america and its foreign realations and to tell you the truth some of them were at least somewhat intelligent complaints. but this one on here... this one takes the cake for stupidity.


    warning: im not attacking the person... im attacking whats being said and how its said... the message.


    so lets be chill.
     
  9. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #9
    wow that was vague, which message are you complaining that other people are bitching about? no harsh feelings here, I just am not sure which direction you were pointing.
     
  10. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #10
    not another one of these arguments.... look true we and russia have nukes etc. etc. but america is using them for defense. if and when sadam gets or has nukes he would not heisitate to use them offensivly to destroy our friends and or us. the term "weapons of mass destruction" i believe is not just limited to nukes... it also includes biological chemical weapons.... which have been found in iraq. i remember seeing on Fox News a former agent of Iraq being interviewed and saying that sadam hussien does have such weapons and he is close to obtaining nukes which he also said he would not hesitate to use it on Isreal and America. there has also been reports that members of Al Qaeda have had meetings with iraq officials which if true (its being heavily researched to find out if its true) means they are a co conspirator. regardless if they do or dont have anything to do with sept. 11, which in my opinion i believe they do, sadam still is trying to create a program of nukes and biological weapons to attack his neighbors (isreal primarily) and america. he has proven himself in the past to attack isreal (scuds) and even his own people (chemical weapons). so dont give me this load of bull that he is some type of freindly guy that is expempt from getting his ass kicked just because you have a problem seeing the evidence stacking or stacked against him or at least that side of the spectral argment.



    bush has said that america is fighting a war against anyone who conspires and aides with the terrorists. there are indications that Irag officials have met with some Al Qaeda memebers making them a part of that group who should be dealt with for what happened in sept 11. besides that there is other evidence developing that he has or is going to have nukes and does have chemical weapons. you tell me that he wont use such against isreal or others? you tell me he wont give out nukes to terrorists that will intern bring suitcase nuke bombs into america? you tell me he wont do such things and i will know you trust that sadam is humanity oriented type of guy. i seem to think you trust him. im sorry about that.




    the point is.... america is trying to find evidence on Irag that puts them in the hot seat enough for us to attack them. if its overwhelming evidence (solid proof) we will attack. right now i dont think it is... but we havent attacked yet... so dont get your panities in a wad. i dont think we will attack untill its proven...enough for the majority of the country to back american troops. if germenny doesnt believe it fine... if britian doesnt believe it... fine. but america has a job to do if they go in alone or not. besided... i do believe hearing that tony blair is backing bush (just wants him to find more evidence and get others behind him)... and that a large part of his country believes that sadam should be taken out.








    well okay then... i guess we should have not stoped the nazis because we have trouble in our own country and have citizens that need caring for. thats absurd. sorry man.
     
  11. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #11
    NICE Points! the here's one you missed, the whole world said they would back America in its defense on this war on terrorism. Now (only 1 year later) with the ideals that "Oh NO! We might actually have to help?!" those other nations are backing down (ie...Attacking Iraq).

    >the point is.... america is trying to find evidence on Irag that puts them in the hot seat enough for us to attack them. if....

    that's why we are sending inspectors back, if Iraq messes around again, we will have plenty of reason to go back in there!

    though here's a little interesting X-Files reasoning, what if the European nations conspired in the sept 11th attacks, then they will reape the rewards when the Euro surpasses the Dollar, and economic items like the stock exchange & other Nations investment etc etc, all move their locations into Europe?
     
  12. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #12
    true true. very odd aint it.

    but we know that sending inspectors back in is no way full proof. sadam will hide the evidence.



    intresting threory. i never thought of that. however if you want to go there... you must go toward the illuminati theory also... its in the same vein.. i would think.

    but over all thanks for bringing out the points.
     
  13. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #13
    >intresting threory. i never thought of that. however if you want to go there... you must go toward the illuminati theory also... its in the same vein.. i would think.

    well, problem is, the US is so massively dependant on oil, that if the wells just naturally ran dry, the world economy would go kaputs! So putting the world's interest into another location where the people are used to city living (far less car driving & more localized food production) actually makes sense on an economic scale.....

    However,
    I love this guy... very close to what we are discussing....

    "_The new national totem of America presides over the chainstore that killed local economies from sea to shining sea. Under this icon of narcotized complacancy, a population of TV zombies plods like a herd of cows to the hamburger factory. Sometimes it's appropriate, even patriotic, to be ashamed of your country. "

    James Howard Kuntsler

    Definitly read "Cluster**** Nation Chronicle -- ongoing commentary"
     
  14. Rajj macrumors 6502a

    Rajj

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    #14
    Wow, your incorrect pronunciation and spelling is worse than our Venezuelan friend!!

    It is pretty conspicuous that you don’t watch CNN or Fox news!!!

    News flashes my friend….. this just in… The U.S. is already bombing Iraq’s spy bases and weapon housings…so don’t tell me that the U.S. is just standing there!!!

    The bottom line is that U.S. wants the oil…That’s why ol’ chap Blair and Germany’s president won’t help the U.S. until they find valid proof!!



    :p :p :D
     
  15. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #15
    >The bottom line is that U.S. wants the oil…That’s why ol’ chap Blair and Germany’s president won’t help the U.S. until they find valid proof!!

    *sigh* and France & Great Britain just wanted their independance from a ruling Dictatorship....oh well, its just a means of life the US needs to keep the world afloat & feed their babies. All in all, in 1000 years we will have no more cars & trucks burning fossil fuels & Iraq will be a wasteland desert no one wants, perhaps so will europe & most of the US, as we have polluted our world.

    Canada will however be a temperate climate, with New York being sub tropical! so that's great news!
     
  16. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #16
    Please avoid cultural stereotypes that only undermine your credibility.:rolleyes:
     
  17. Rajj macrumors 6502a

    Rajj

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  18. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #18
    did you know that bush is being cautious about the possible attack on Iraq? did you know it was bush jr who told his father to be more cautious before going after iraq in what would be called "dessert storm"? i bet you didn’t because you love spitting out one-sided propaganda.

    listen i don’t claim that what im saying is full proof or absolute... im merely indicating to you that you fail to see the other sides pros and the arguments that you try to push forth here are weak. people on your side have better arguments then the ones you are using ... you should learn from them and stop it with these arguments that seem are stemming from the elementary play ground.
    ;)


    "This isn't just an issue for the U.S., it is an issue for Britain, it is an issue for the wider world. America shouldn't have to face this issue alone, we should face it together."
    ---- Tony Blair


    http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/09/03/blair.iraq/index.html
     
  19. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #19
    just as a note and question...

    the us did use radioactive weapons in the gulf war... back-dawg knows the specifics better than i do. but basically it was some form of deteriorated uranium or something. while it was not as potent as what one would use in a full scale nuclear radioactive bomb, it has left the citizens of iraq with many cases of cancer and other illnesses from the residual radiation.... and i don't see that as totally "defense".

    and now the question: how does anyone know for sure that as soon as saddam hussein gets nuclear weapons that he'd use them? after all, if they have chemical weapons as many say, and haven't used them against us yet, then why would they use nuclear weapons "without hesitation"?


    while i agree that he's a psycho and doing harm to his people, i don't have all the facts, and i don't think most anyone on here does either.

    as for france hating america.... that's cool. let em drink their wine, eat their cheese, and wave their white surrender flags....

    ha ha!
     
  20. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #20
    yeah jello i dont know about that. if true thats not good.


    all im saying to these other guy is to argue a bit better from his side. i am in no way claiming the way i think (my opinion) is correct and the only way. i do know that we are still at war and we need to bring these terrorists organizations to justice and all those who conspired with the terrorists organizations.
     
  21. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #21
    yeah, it's true. saw it on a news story (not that that makes it true) and my dad (retired army colonel) and back-dawg (knows his military info) both confirmed it.... so yeah. it sucks. big time


    didn't mean at all to sound like i was attacking you, just thought of those things while reading the thread.

    it's alllll good.
     
  22. big macrumors 65816

    big

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    #22
    >the us did use radioactive weapons in the gulf war...

    it did? that was hush hush, glad I got this info from a rumors site....


    >how does anyone know for sure that as soon as saddam hussein gets nuclear weapons that he'd use them?

    ever hear of Gulf War Syndrome? Or is that made up too?


    >while i agree that he's a psycho and doing harm to his people,

    Give 'em Favorite Nation status like China! That'll teach 'em to emplore cheap labor in inhumain factories etc etc.... Oh, how about him killing his nephew, after the US interegating him....That's F* upped! He did say Saddam was working on getting weapons grade Uranium
     
  23. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #23

    If and when... please supply evidence for if and for when.

    Fox News, enough said.

    Nobody is saying he's Mother Theresa. The picture painted of him in the media, though, is largely sensationalized pap designed to get ratings and to satisfy the establishment, not to reveal the facts. Can you imagine what it would look like in the newspaper if Saddam saved a drowning child from a river and a major US news network reported it? "Saddam kidnaps child... holds him hostage in river... innocent Iraqi nearly killed by psychopathic dictator." Don't think you have an accurate picture of the situation by watching the Fox Republican News Channel.

    What is a terrorist? A terrorist to you is a martyr to the next person. You and I are terrorists who deserve to spend an eternity in Hell in the eyes of most of the Iraqi population. The fact is that the word "terrorist" means whatever WE make it mean. And we've made it into a word that we can apply to all our enemies, anyone we don't agree with, in order to silence them, take away their rights, and sidestep justice.

    "Dealt with" by breaking international law to invade and remove a regime we don't agree with? The problem is that the US is making up its own personally convenient laws as it goes. Prisoners of war? Nah, "enemy combatants." War on terrorism? Why hasn't Congress declared it? What is terrorism, anyway? Have you read the novel 1984? It's interesting to look at the parallels between Hussein, bin-Laden, all those evil terrorist guys, and Emmanuel Goldstein. VERrrry interesting.

    I don't think he's a humanity oriented type of guy. I just think he's no worse than any other dictator. If we're going to bomb a third-world country that really treats its citizens like crap, let's go after China. Oh, wait. They're in bed with our big businesses. Nevermind then, let's take the easy route and go after the country whose oil we need, storming in under the guise of liberation and freedom and denying that the desire to rape and pillage their natural resources had anything to do with our decision.

    While at the same time ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

    Virtually all of the Middle East and Europe are against it. Actually about 95% (rough estimate) of all countries in the world are against a US-Iraq war. Who knows why Britain is with us... maybe it's the lust for world domination that's in their DNA.
    Nothing compares to the Nazis. Iraq is in no way similar to Nazi Germany. Not even the early days of Nazi Germany on a small scale. Hussein is in no way similar to Hitler. Please don't bring sensationalized Nazi comparisons into this - they're ridiculous and you know it.

    Alex
     
  24. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #24

    nah its cool man. thanks for offering that bit of info (even if there is no reference) to argue on the other side. thats a good argument if true and perhaps xrhajj
    should look into it to help out his side more here.
     
  25. Dr. Distortion macrumors regular

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    #25
    Well, those "weapons" were just bullet points filled with decayed uranium/plutonium to make them able to penetrate much thicker tank shielding than conventional lead bulletpoints would have done.
     
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