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Theif!
- Thread starter carbonmotion
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teach him a lesson?
teach him a lesson?
sounds like you need a lesson, like being taught out how to use all the security features of that new-fangled wireless stuff you just bought!
there's no need to get vindictive against the kid. if it was your kid you'd probably be sharing a laugh with him about how cool wireless networks are... and how novel it is to be getting an internet connection for free. it's not like he's stealing kilowatt hours, therms, gallons, or minutes - the cost of your internet connection, unlike other utilities, is probably not determined by number of megabytes downloaded... and let's face it, running a wireless network in a densely populated area is not unlike putting a sprinkler in the yard for all the kids on the block to play in.
so don't be a grumpy old man. you can share the wealth... you could ask him for a little bit of money in exchange for continued connectivity... but at least take responsibility for the fact that you left your back door wide open.
teach him a lesson?
sounds like you need a lesson, like being taught out how to use all the security features of that new-fangled wireless stuff you just bought!there's no need to get vindictive against the kid. if it was your kid you'd probably be sharing a laugh with him about how cool wireless networks are... and how novel it is to be getting an internet connection for free. it's not like he's stealing kilowatt hours, therms, gallons, or minutes - the cost of your internet connection, unlike other utilities, is probably not determined by number of megabytes downloaded... and let's face it, running a wireless network in a densely populated area is not unlike putting a sprinkler in the yard for all the kids on the block to play in.
so don't be a grumpy old man. you can share the wealth... you could ask him for a little bit of money in exchange for continued connectivity... but at least take responsibility for the fact that you left your back door wide open.
If everyone shared their broadband connection with 3 or 4 neighbors, then the cable or DSL companies would be forced to raise rates. In fact, I don't think it is legal to share your broadband connection with your neighbors. I don't think you have a license to share your connection with people outside of your home.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to be the judge and jury or take the moral high ground. Just something to think about.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to be the judge and jury or take the moral high ground. Just something to think about.
laws
> If everyone shared their broadband connection with 3 or 4 neighbors, then the
> cable or DSL companies would be forced to raise rates.
stated as fact, but probably the opposite of the truth. nobody knows that for a fact. here's a fact: the FCC has predicted that many broadband providers will be dropping their rates during the next year. add in the _fact_ that wireless MANs and RANs (metro area networks and rural area networks) are coming onto the scene.... the company i work for sells a 1.5 Mbps wireless line-of-sight connection and it costs $10/month less than DSL... guess which one i use?
what is the basis for that argument, anyway? bandwidth? remember Juno from the early-mid 90s? they used to offer free internet connectivity... they found that less than 5% of their users were consuming 90% of the total bandwidth on their network. certainly, more people are online now, and they're online more frequently and for longer periods of time, but it's not like the average family is downloading Linux ISOs every night... i would suspect that the low-bandwidth users, in paying upwards of $50/month in some geographic regions, do more than their part to subsidize the bandwidth costs for the people who ARE actually downloading Linux ISOs every night. believe me: if it wasn't working out for the providers, and they didn't have a business model that takes these things into consideration, virtually nobody would have a broadband account right now.
as for the legality of sharing a connection, i used to live in the Northeast, where Verizon is a popular DSL provider. when i was setting up my account, the big ol' telco rep told me i couldn't run a network in my own home, i'd have to pay them $20/month for each additional user. that is akin to someone at Cox/RoadRunner/etc telling me that i have to pay a per-seat license if more than one person is going to watch cable TV at the same time. forget it. so i sat up a network for the 4 other apartments in my house, and Verizon never knew the difference. i used a ton of bandwidth and never heard from them, not once. they will gladly take your money if you're gullible enough to give it.
besides, if you live in Manhattan in an apartment building and have an Apple Base Station or any other wireless gear, do you think the NYPD are going to be running around with those Kensington Wi-Finders in hand, looking for bandwidth leaks? i doubt it. now, that's not the "it's only wrong if you get caught" ideology, it's more of the "i can't believe they passed such a silly corporate-bank-account-protecting law and i don't care if i'm breaking it or not" ideology.
for what it's worth, i do agree (sort of) that it's stealing, but only in the way that starting a pirate radio station is stealing. it's just the first post and some of the knee-jerk responses that irked me - as if malicious retribution against this kid was deserved, necessary, and even appropriate. considering what you get, internet connectivity is actually dirt cheap. just think back 10 years ago when most people didn't even know what a modem was, or had ever touched a computer. now people are whining because they can't download a full-length DVD-quality movie in five minutes... i can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to share such innovation with others...
> If everyone shared their broadband connection with 3 or 4 neighbors, then the
> cable or DSL companies would be forced to raise rates.
stated as fact, but probably the opposite of the truth. nobody knows that for a fact. here's a fact: the FCC has predicted that many broadband providers will be dropping their rates during the next year. add in the _fact_ that wireless MANs and RANs (metro area networks and rural area networks) are coming onto the scene.... the company i work for sells a 1.5 Mbps wireless line-of-sight connection and it costs $10/month less than DSL... guess which one i use?
what is the basis for that argument, anyway? bandwidth? remember Juno from the early-mid 90s? they used to offer free internet connectivity... they found that less than 5% of their users were consuming 90% of the total bandwidth on their network. certainly, more people are online now, and they're online more frequently and for longer periods of time, but it's not like the average family is downloading Linux ISOs every night... i would suspect that the low-bandwidth users, in paying upwards of $50/month in some geographic regions, do more than their part to subsidize the bandwidth costs for the people who ARE actually downloading Linux ISOs every night. believe me: if it wasn't working out for the providers, and they didn't have a business model that takes these things into consideration, virtually nobody would have a broadband account right now.
as for the legality of sharing a connection, i used to live in the Northeast, where Verizon is a popular DSL provider. when i was setting up my account, the big ol' telco rep told me i couldn't run a network in my own home, i'd have to pay them $20/month for each additional user. that is akin to someone at Cox/RoadRunner/etc telling me that i have to pay a per-seat license if more than one person is going to watch cable TV at the same time. forget it. so i sat up a network for the 4 other apartments in my house, and Verizon never knew the difference. i used a ton of bandwidth and never heard from them, not once. they will gladly take your money if you're gullible enough to give it.
besides, if you live in Manhattan in an apartment building and have an Apple Base Station or any other wireless gear, do you think the NYPD are going to be running around with those Kensington Wi-Finders in hand, looking for bandwidth leaks? i doubt it. now, that's not the "it's only wrong if you get caught" ideology, it's more of the "i can't believe they passed such a silly corporate-bank-account-protecting law and i don't care if i'm breaking it or not" ideology.
for what it's worth, i do agree (sort of) that it's stealing, but only in the way that starting a pirate radio station is stealing. it's just the first post and some of the knee-jerk responses that irked me - as if malicious retribution against this kid was deserved, necessary, and even appropriate. considering what you get, internet connectivity is actually dirt cheap. just think back 10 years ago when most people didn't even know what a modem was, or had ever touched a computer. now people are whining because they can't download a full-length DVD-quality movie in five minutes... i can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to share such innovation with others...
Huh.
I'm surprised at the divide between those that think
a)taking the signal is bad;
b)leaving the signal open is bad.
Whatever happened to trust. Do everything assuming someone may do something you don't want them to do. Seems like a poor motto to live by. Live life scared of everyone is the message I hear.
I'm surprised at the divide between those that think
a)taking the signal is bad;
b)leaving the signal open is bad.
Whatever happened to trust. Do everything assuming someone may do something you don't want them to do. Seems like a poor motto to live by. Live life scared of everyone is the message I hear.
That's one funny line.
Anyway, with regards to opening your wireless to anyone, I think you folks shoud carefully read you service agreement to see if it's prohibited. There may not be a law prohibiting it, but if your service contract prohibits it, you could get yourself in trouble. There is one brodband provider whose name escapes me that encourages opening you network for nominal fees that you then share with them. It's like you become a mini-ISP, signing up users for your own profit.
Cant believe no one mentioned Ettercap.
http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/
and how to install it.
http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1594
Enjoy
http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/
and how to install it.
http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1594
Enjoy
Re: Theif!
find out exactly who he is and get all his private info....wait till he graduates college, gets a good job, gets married, gets a huge promotion....and then.....
send one subscription to nambla (http://www.nambla1.de) to his home and another to his office.
when he is homeless and divorced, go up to him and say "thats what you get for stealing my bandwith PUNK"
find out exactly who he is and get all his private info....wait till he graduates college, gets a good job, gets married, gets a huge promotion....and then.....
send one subscription to nambla (http://www.nambla1.de) to his home and another to his office.
when he is homeless and divorced, go up to him and say "thats what you get for stealing my bandwith PUNK"
I wouldn't say that either is bad. But if you're going to leave your signal open, don't act indignant if someone is resourceful enough to take advantage of your generosity.
this is ridiculous. first of all its only a kid. second of all its your fault for unsecuring your wireless connection. how do you think he/she found out about your wireless connection? most likely by accident right? if i accidentally stumble across a WIFI hotspot in my living room would i be stealing your internet connection?
i think your plot to inflict harm to him and 'pay him back' is rather childish and in fact may be more criminal that your neighbors act.
i think your plot to inflict harm to him and 'pay him back' is rather childish and in fact may be more criminal that your neighbors act.
I think the FBI prank is the way to go.
I am a bit dismayed by those that think the kid is doing nothing wrong simply because you left it unprotected. That's like saying that it's OK for someone to come in and steal your TV because you forgot to lock the front door: "Well, officer, I realize I didn't secure my home, so don't take it out on the thief...the door was unlocked, he didn't know any better."
Spare the rod...
I am a bit dismayed by those that think the kid is doing nothing wrong simply because you left it unprotected. That's like saying that it's OK for someone to come in and steal your TV because you forgot to lock the front door: "Well, officer, I realize I didn't secure my home, so don't take it out on the thief...the door was unlocked, he didn't know any better."
Spare the rod...
Aaaahhhh Mr. Saabmp3, It depends on what definition of "IS" is. Look around, people steal music and somehow label it as being legit. On one hand he didnt sign any contracts thats he cant turn on his computer and all of the sudden for it to be able to go online. But on the other hand, unless this kid is a complete moron, he knows he still is using something that he did not get permission for to use nor paid for. I leave my car door open sometimes. Now if someone takes it, is it my fault it is stolen? And if so, how much protection should i put on it before one can say it's not my fault. Even if it is my fault for being careless, it still is the guy who takes it, does the crime. Is it not?
Re: Re: Huh.
yeah, if everybody trusted eachother it would be anarchy.
by the way i just made a WEP 128 hex password for my network, turned on WAN PIN blocking, enabled a single MAC address (my own) and gave the network a specific name. i left the broadcasting feature on because techtv said something about packets actually use that to transmit data...if its turned off it can actually slow performance.
yeah, if everybody trusted eachother it would be anarchy.
by the way i just made a WEP 128 hex password for my network, turned on WAN PIN blocking, enabled a single MAC address (my own) and gave the network a specific name. i left the broadcasting feature on because techtv said something about packets actually use that to transmit data...if its turned off it can actually slow performance.
WTF? You have an open network.
I'm unable to understand why you are complaining about people using your wireless internet acess if you are providing an open network.
The problem is that you don't want to have an open network, but you have done nothing to close your network.
Instead of blaming an innocent person for using an open network, you should take the responsibility of properly setting up your network to suit your needs and desires.
I'm unable to understand why you are complaining about people using your wireless internet acess if you are providing an open network.
The problem is that you don't want to have an open network, but you have done nothing to close your network.
Instead of blaming an innocent person for using an open network, you should take the responsibility of properly setting up your network to suit your needs and desires.
Actually its illegal in more then a few parts of the US. Obtaining an IP address in some parts of the US is the equivalent to hacking a system. Without approval from the owner of the network you could be opening yourself up to some legal problems. AFAIK no one has been given the slapdown YET because of this but as a wardriver I can tell you its a topic of much discussion on many WD forums.
I dont think going to the cops and complaining will do you any good. MAYBE if they were doing something nasty with your connection you might perk the cops interest but as it stands *shrugs*
As for this person. If nothing else he/she should have at least asked for permission. As it stands they deserve some grief for invading another persons network without permission. And for those who leave their network open. Heres hoping that one of the next massive outbreaks isnt initially distributed via someone pulling upfront your house at 3AM with a laptop, WIFI card, and antenna and uploading it to the net from your network. Odds are slim of this happening to you specifically but its going to happen someday. Watch the newspapers. I will bet someday someone will be charged with distributing a virus and after computer forensics goes over their computer they will be cleared but its going to make them look like morons in the end.
As for my home network. Its about as secure as you are going to get. 128-bit WEP, MAC filtering, VPN with RADIUS authentication. If someone breaks into my network they deserve to gain access to everything I have.
If you want to irk this guy off all you need to do is find out what IP this person is using on your network. Most likely its a Windows XP box and if you are lucky its a Windows XP Home edition that leaves the admin password blank. Every NT/2K/XP system has a c$ share on it. If you are lucky this is available with the username: Administrator and no password. At this point what you want to do is upload a warning.txt file into C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
Place whatever you want to tell him into a text file and leave it in there. Next time he reboots he will get a nice little message from you as will anyone else that logs into the system.
You guys should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting sending this guy a virus.
Re: Share The Love
Here is the thing, I think the kid has dial-up cause his parents are old fashioned... And he buys ths usb 802.11b adaptor and plugs it in to his wintel and starts to steal my bandwith. Its annoying because the first week I thought it was my connection being gay... oh yeah also, I'm only home on the weekends so most of the time I at school /dorm with a ultra fast connection (800kps download speed average) ...so anyways, I thought i was just me going nuts... but my dad complains how we pay 50 dollars a month and CNN .com takes a like 100 years to load ...so, I'm like WTF? if my dad thinks its slow, then it HAS to be slow... So I go and check the router log... and bam this mystry ip address... I mean there is only one house in range of my WiFi bubble... and I know this kid because I pay him to mow my lawn and he always bitches about his Dial-Up downloads Pornos really slow ...and I know he was there When my Router came on the UPS truck... and then it all came together one night. Bingo! that's gotta be it. Actually I think I have evilest idea of all of you guys. I going to bitch to his dad about this for an hour ...you can do alot to a 16 year old and he wouldn't give a rats ass ...but when pappy takes out the belt... hehehe.
Here is the thing, I think the kid has dial-up cause his parents are old fashioned... And he buys ths usb 802.11b adaptor and plugs it in to his wintel and starts to steal my bandwith. Its annoying because the first week I thought it was my connection being gay... oh yeah also, I'm only home on the weekends so most of the time I at school /dorm with a ultra fast connection (800kps download speed average) ...so anyways, I thought i was just me going nuts... but my dad complains how we pay 50 dollars a month and CNN .com takes a like 100 years to load ...so, I'm like WTF? if my dad thinks its slow, then it HAS to be slow... So I go and check the router log... and bam this mystry ip address... I mean there is only one house in range of my WiFi bubble... and I know this kid because I pay him to mow my lawn and he always bitches about his Dial-Up downloads Pornos really slow ...and I know he was there When my Router came on the UPS truck... and then it all came together one night. Bingo! that's gotta be it. Actually I think I have evilest idea of all of you guys. I going to bitch to his dad about this for an hour ...you can do alot to a 16 year old and he wouldn't give a rats ass ...but when pappy takes out the belt... hehehe.
SiliconAddict,
can you tell me why my security log has so many IP address blocked by Dos blocking? what is Dos blocking and why is my computer being bombarded with people trying to access it? just within the last thirty minutes i've had like twenty hits.
thanks for the info...that is if you know.
can you tell me why my security log has so many IP address blocked by Dos blocking? what is Dos blocking and why is my computer being bombarded with people trying to access it? just within the last thirty minutes i've had like twenty hits.
thanks for the info...that is if you know.
Re: WTF? You have an open network.
So if I forget to lock my car should I expect someone to get in and turn on the radio and chill in my car? WIFI security should not be required. And leaving security off does NOT mean everyone is invited to use a network. People need to grow the hell up and realize that just because you can't physically possess something (music, movies, programs, etc.) doesn't give you the right to steal and/or intrude. Using this fellows WIFI network is no different then walking into his house sitting down and watching the TV simply because he forgot to lock the door. In that case its implied that its his property you are intruding without permission. And any reasonable person realizes this is wrong. The same can be applied to a network. (Wireless or not.) If you aren't asking for permission you are intruding.
With that being said I think WIFI is becoming pervasive enough that at some point most mobile (laptop/PDA) systems will be set to just automatically pick up a network no matter what/where or who its owned by. (Windows already does this by default.) If someone doesnt want company on their network they will need to secure it at least to the extent that you cant simply wander onto it by accident.
So if I forget to lock my car should I expect someone to get in and turn on the radio and chill in my car? WIFI security should not be required. And leaving security off does NOT mean everyone is invited to use a network. People need to grow the hell up and realize that just because you can't physically possess something (music, movies, programs, etc.) doesn't give you the right to steal and/or intrude. Using this fellows WIFI network is no different then walking into his house sitting down and watching the TV simply because he forgot to lock the door. In that case its implied that its his property you are intruding without permission. And any reasonable person realizes this is wrong. The same can be applied to a network. (Wireless or not.) If you aren't asking for permission you are intruding.
With that being said I think WIFI is becoming pervasive enough that at some point most mobile (laptop/PDA) systems will be set to just automatically pick up a network no matter what/where or who its owned by. (Windows already does this by default.) If someone doesnt want company on their network they will need to secure it at least to the extent that you cant simply wander onto it by accident.