There's really no good reason to eat meat

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Toe, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. Toe macrumors 65816

    Toe

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    #1
    Steve Jobs is a vegetarian, and with good reason. The production and consumption of meat causes huge environmental problems, exacerbates global human starvation, and results in the annual deaths of billions of sentient beings. The transient experience of tasting something "yummy" just isn't worth it.

    I never talk about this stuff much in the real world, but on-line, well... that's different. ;) Allow me to pimp my new website where you can see answers to all those silly reasons not to be a vegetarian.

    Enjoy!! :D
     
  2. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #2
    Nice site, Toe! :) I've been on and off vegetarian many times, but I'm back and I think this time for good. I like the "less meat" emphasis of your website, because I think its an important thing of which vegetarian / animal rights activists lose sight -- if everyone in the developed world ate even a few pounds less meat per month, it would probably have a substantial impact on the environment, on the welfare of animals, and maybe even their health.

    Also one thing I've been very aware of this time around is how different meat tastes and smells after you stop eating it for a prolonged time. I like(d) the taste of a lot of meat. I would probably too, if I started eating it again. But anyway, in the beginning, I had a serious craving for hamburgers. So I would eat vegetarian all week, and then make a once-a-week concession for a Whopper :rolleyes: But over time, the taste became very different, as my sense of taste de-acclimated to meat. Meat started to taste sour and smell bad to me. So in the end, I didn't even want it anymore. I really don't crave after meat anymore, except maybe sushi (to which I haven't really given in...the only exceptions I really make is once in a rare-rare while, i.e. once a year, to have a little meat at dim sum, because my best friends love dim sum....)

    Anyway, do your thing, Toe! :)
     
  3. Daveway macrumors 68040

    Daveway

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Location:
    New Orleans / Lafayette, La
    #3
    I really don't like to use the word "hate" so I won't.

    I pitty vegetarians like you. You try to force your beliefs down everyone's throat. Humans are genetically engineered by God to be able to eat meat. Brushed your teeth lately and noticed pointy teeth? From what I read on this forum, it seems like many vegans here are just self absorbed liberals.
    If no one ate meat there would be a large problem of over population and then your "save the animals" protests goes down the drain. Not to mention all your plant eating takes away from the enviroment that protects animals.

    I'm done venting, it's just sad to see another thread of some self absorbed vegan trying to shove his belief to other people. I'm sorry if I offended you but it's the truth. I respect vegetarians, it's just when they do this kind of thing that I get mad.
     
  4. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #4
    Yeah, I like fish too much. But I'd be happy enough to stop eating chicken again. Also, after eating Russian meat for a year an a half, I feel like I'm owed like a really top-notch juicy steak. The problem is I don't raelly _want_ a steak. It's been nearly 15 years since I last had one, and I doubt I could really eat one.
     
  5. Nickygoat macrumors 6502a

    Nickygoat

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Location:
    London
    #5
    Does a Whopper count as meat? :p. I agree generally with vegetarianism, but find that my diet is too boring if I don't eat meat every now and again. a pretty poor excuse I agree.
    A few of my friends are vegetarian/ vegan but will quite happily wear leather shoes and jackets (one is a biker with full leathers) without seeing the contradiction when promoting their diet. That, for me, invalidates their arguments.
     
  6. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #6
    Good point. God wants us to eat meat. It's just apples he wants us to avoid. :rolleyes:
     
  7. ldburroughs macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    #7
    Interesting thread. Here are my reasons for eating meat. First, I like chicken and filet mignon. That's pretty much the only type of meat I will eat. It also has to come with no fat (at all) and no bones. I don't like the thought of eating little (or huge) animals for a meal. While I'm at it I might as well mention that I think hunting (as a sport) is ridiculous. It's hardly a sport and it is simply a joke to claim you are tough because you can stop a deer with a gun. If you want to impress me, chase it down and kill it with your bare hands. On second thought, don't. That is gross and a serious waste of productive energy. Although, it certainly is more sporting than hiding in bushes and shooting Bambi or Daffy. Oooh, you killed a deer. Big deal. All they do is eat grass and play with bunnies.

    Back to my original thought. I eat meat because I don't have time to eat non-meat products. Between a daughter, set of twin girls on the way, a full-time working wife, law school, and work ... I can't fit it into my schedule. If they made decent quick vegetarian meals available I would be first in line. What exists today for the most part are meals that taste awful, smell funny, and have a terrible texture in the mouth. I am not one of those who needs non-chicken, chicken as a vegetarian. I don't need you to reproduce the taste, smell, and texture of chicken with some horrid soy product, just show me how to make something that is quick and easy and won't lower my wife's iron levels.

    I'd love to stop eating dead animals for meals. Any time I think about it I get absolutely sick. Like I mentioned earlier, I can't eat anything with a bone in it. It reminds me that I'm eating flesh. Gross! But I do love a filet and I can't seem to make a meal without chicken these days. What a tangled web I've woven. I need help, but there is none to be found. I'm writing this from Virginia Beach, home of PETA. Nice people by the way. Good message, often times poorly delivered, but necessary.
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #8
    Depends on your perspective, I guess...I personally don't really promote my diet. Even online, I usually stay out of it -- I mostly just wanted to be supportive of Toe. But, if your perspective is harm minimization towards animals, or environmental benefit, then any amount of reduction has some positive impact, right?

    I do wear leather though. I'd happily not wear leather if stylish replacements were available, but in many cases they aren't. I think it is a problem that a lot of vegetarians struggle with. There just aren't a lot of analogues to Steve Madden and Aldo, let alone Prada or Fendi, that don't involve leather.

    As for the biker, you mean like a Harley biker? I'm constantly re-evaluating my perspective on that set, because there're so many more down here than there were in Detroit. There've been several children at camp weekends whose parents were so sweet, and were total bikers, with the hippie kinda names and everything. But anyway, outside of that kind of biker, I thought most motorcycle enthusiasts didn't wear leather anymore, because the alternatives were so much better performance-wise?
     
  9. Toe thread starter macrumors 65816

    Toe

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    #9
    You're showing off exactly why I made this site...

    >I pitty vegetarians like you. You try to force your beliefs down everyone's throat.
    Huh? What forcing? I just made a website. And BTW, like most vegetarians, I am 100% opposed to any sort of anti-meat legislation. Just like with alcohol, drugs, and abortions... prohibition never works.

    >Humans are genetically engineered by God to be able to eat meat.
    God doesn't require you to eat meat.

    >Brushed your teeth lately and noticed pointy teeth?
    Gorillas have pointy teeth too and are herbivores.

    >If no one ate meat there would be a large problem of over population and then your "save the animals" protests goes down the drain.
    Are you kidding? I didn't even bother to put a reply to that on my site since it makes no sense. If demand for meat goes down, the number of animals raised for slaughter will decline.

    >Not to mention all your plant eating takes away from the enviroment that protects animals.
    All studies show that meat is far less efficient than plant-based food production. Which uses more, raising plants to eat, or raising plants to feed to animals, then eating the animals? It's a pure matter of efficiency.

    >I'm done venting, it's just sad to see another thread of some self absorbed vegan trying to shove his belief to other people. I'm sorry if I offended you but it's the truth. I respect vegetarians, it's just when they do this kind of thing that I get mad.
    No shoving going on here... you weren't forced to read my post or visit my site. I'm tired of all those car companies trying to force me to buy their cars. Do you think I should complain about it?
     
  10. AliensAreFuzzy macrumors 68000

    AliensAreFuzzy

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    #10
    Personally, I don't know what I would eat if I didn't eat meat. I have a hard enough time figuring out what to eat on Fridays in Lent. If I had to do that every day, I don't think I'd be able to do it.
     
  11. 840quadra Moderator

    840quadra

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    Twin Cities Minnesota
    #11
    I just discovered I like Tofu of all things..

    I am not going to convert, but it is a larger part of my diet now. I have a couple of friends that are die hard Vegetarian, but none that are of the Vegan classification.

    I am a Farm boy, and I can't give up Cheese and a good steak every so often!
     
  12. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #12
    While I do like some of the boca burgers, I think they are probably no substitute for real meat. My feeling has always been that there's no point in trying to quit eating meat by trying to substitute meat with fake meat. It'll never satisfy. You have to get into what foods there are on offer. I love tofu and lots of veggies and beans and so on. If I was a meat and potatos kind of person, I don't see how I could enjoy life as a vegitarian. The funny thing is, after a long time of not eating meat, some of the meat substitutes become something in their own right. I like boca burgers because I think they taste good, not because I think they substitute for burgers. If I wanted a burger I'd get a burger.

    As for iron:
    http://www.vegsoc.org/info/iron.html

    Sources of Iron
    Good sources: Chick peas, Bran flakes, Spinach, Baked beans, Black treacle , Muesli, Dried figs, Dried apricots

    Fair sources: Egg, Avocado, Asparagus, wholemeal bread, Broccoli, Brown rice, Peanut butter
     
  13. Toe thread starter macrumors 65816

    Toe

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    #13
    I find there to be a huge variety available. Pizza and every form of pasta and sauce pretty much qualifies. Almost alll traditional Latin American, Mediterranean, Indian, and Oriental foods have no meat in them. Pretty much anything but the standard European diet, or modern diets around the world that have been over-meated by American influence.

    Americans are just brainwashed into thinking that it ain't a meal unless some critter was cut up into it.
     
  14. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    looking through rose-tinted spectacles...
    #14
    Sorry, I like meat. I like lots of vegetables too. I don't eat meat every day generally but I have no scruples about enjoying it. I don't eat reclaimed or reconstituted junk and I tend to buy good quality, well-sourced wherever I can.

    I see a lamb gambolling in a field and I think 'Mmmm, rosemary and garlic' served with new potatoes and some green beans.

    I must say that I see your argument over eating meat being similar to slavery or cannibalism as fatuous. Animals don't have free will; and chances are that lamb wouldn't have been born if it wasn't for me wanting to eat it. ;) Look what happens to other species that humans don't find useful; they become endangered or extinct.
     
  15. Toe thread starter macrumors 65816

    Toe

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    #15
    Don't apologize to me... I'm not the one being killed.

    Have you ever met a dog or cat? You really think they are 100% controlled by their instincts? Keep in mind that pigs are much, much more intelligent than cats, dogs, or dolphins.

    By that reasoning, it would be OK to raise people for slaughter, as long as that's the only reason they were bred....
     
  16. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    looking through rose-tinted spectacles...
    #16
    Much of that wasn't through choice though. The traditional diets in these countries were generally those of the majority; the poorer sectors in society who couldn't afford meat. If you take a look at recipes from 19th century Italy for feastdays, you'll find many dishes with offal (pigs trotters etc) because it was the cheapest available.

    You'll also find that unlike modern US/UK meals where we consider meat to be the major component on the plate; they used stews/casseroles to spread it out amongst as many as possible. So they would make minestra (a cabbage/potato/bean stew) but throw a ham knuckle into it for flavour, vitamins and if your bowl had a shred of meat, you were lucky.

    I'll agree though that since there has been a tradition of not having meat available in those cuisines, they do tend to offer more tasty alternatives than much of the mush you see sold for vegetarians on many traditional US/UK menus.
     
  17. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #17
    I eat meat sparingly.

    I don't eat breakfast, I always eat a vegetarian lunch (yogurt, crackers, fruit) and often don't eat any meat for dinner.

    I like Boca products and they're easier to make than real meat.

    It is highly unnatural to eat meat with three meals a day. Forget gorillas, that's never been the normal way humans have eaten for thousands of years. Eating meat historically used to be something special. It's only been the last 80 years or so that it's de rigeur to have bacon/sausage for breakfast, ham sandwich for lunch and steak/chicken for dinner.
     
  18. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Location Location Location
    #18
    I'm a meat eater, and while I will continue to eat meat, I will certainly side with Toe and say its probably unnatural.

    One good reason that indicates this is our inability to eat meat without cooking it first. We're the only meat eaters who need to cook our food in order to kill the bacteria before we eat it. Why? Because we don't naturally produce the enzymes necessary to kill off the bacteria. Do you see lions and tigers cook their meat over a fire before they eat it? You'd find it ridiculous if you saw a bear cook a raccoon over an open flame, wouldn't you? Its probably because it just doesn't look natural.
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #19
    If you killed an animal fresh you could eat it raw without much risk of sickness too.

    Think sushi; think tartare.
     
  20. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #20
    Here you go...
    But it's one sick caveman diet [​IMG]
     
  21. jamdr macrumors 6502a

    jamdr

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bay Area
    #21
    This is a great thread, thanks for posting Toe. I've been trying hard to go vegetarian for a number of years and I'm really close to getting there. The main obstacle for me was that when you're in college, you don't have much of a choice of what to eat if you can only afford to eat dining hall food. Right now I'm at the point where I will eat a tiny bit of chicken once every couple weeks maybe. It's really just luck of the draw what happens to get served and how hungry I am at the time. But for about four years that's all the meat I've eaten and I'd like to be cut it out of my diet completely.
     
  22. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #22
    You could also make the same argument for potatoes.
     
  23. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Location:
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    #23
    Hyperbole verging on hysteria.

    Its why I give no credence to the "Meat is Murder" and "Milk is Pus" crowd.

    If you cannot advance your point of view without resorting to logical ridiculousness and emotional blackmail tactics, then I have no time for you.
     
  24. asif786 macrumors 65816

    asif786

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Location:
    London, UK.
    #24
    I've been a vegan for a couple of weeks now, and I must say - it's not too bad..

    I'm not a vegan because of cruelty to animals or anything like that, because I know it's *always* going to happen. Me becoming a vegan isn't going to stop that. I simply became one because I thought 'why not?' - if I end up hating it, I can always go back..

    I've slowly found that where I used to eat 3-4 hamburgers a day (those tiny mcdonalds ones - they're cheap), now when I look at one I think 'eww, how could I eat so many of those'.

    everybody has a right to eat what they want, when they want. I dont think I'm superior because I dont eat meat. Nobody should. But anyone who is thinking of trying to become a vegan or a veggie, just try it - it wont hurt. you'll see that after a while, meat isnt so nice all the time..

    -asif
     
  25. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    Location:
    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    #25
    Hmmm. This thread gave me an idea for dinner; time to fire up the grill and toss on some ribeyes. :)
     

Share This Page