Things are turning around in Iraq

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by bond003, Jul 27, 2003.

  1. macrumors newbie

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    #1
  2. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    holy crap! is this what passes for military action these days? kidnappings? ransom? how can this possibly be legal?

    or does "legal" not count anymore?
     
  3. macrumors member

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    #3
    It worked. The guy turned himself in. Jolly good show.
     
  4. Inu
    macrumors newbie

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    #4
    Off course if ***** worked! But hey, you are really trying hard to look like the good guys over there. At least the hostages weren't raped or something, so your methods are at least a bit better than the guy you toppled for no apparent reason (Because there is still no evidence of WMD, and you just showed that you can be as cruel as Big S by showing petty little victories and taking (innocents as) hostages)...
    At least we didnt hear of rapings _yet_
     
  5. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    the ends do not justify the means. that's an illegal act and should result in a court martial. if you find this acceptable, your moral compass is whacked.

    [rant]
    i am sick of tired of "we're at war" and "everything's changed since 9/11" to be used as cheap-ass excuses for breaking the law and absolving all responsibility from being decent human beings. if this is what we're reduced to, we don't deserve any respect from the rest of the world.
    [/rant]

    if bush or rumsfeld have _any_ respect for human life, heads will roll. anything short of that proves that they are sick, vindictive f***s.
     
  6. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #6
    and don't bother reporting my post. i already did it.
     
  7. thread starter macrumors newbie

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    zimv20

    Are you at all encouraged to see that the US is making progress in rounding up those who kill American troops?

    It appears that you are actually angry about the progress being made.

    Other than bringing in NATO and UN troops or just simply leaving Iraq, is there anything we should be doing to stop the killing of our troops?

    Why may I not amazed that you would pick one part of the article to deflect the overall positive report? The number of attacks have decreased without any UN intervention.
     
  8. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    i'm angry about HOW it's being made.

    before the war, we might as well have kidnapped catherine deneuve to get the french UN security council vote. would that have been acceptable?
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    no, no .... NO that would be wrong! Though visions of catherine dance through my head, that would definitly be wrong! :D

    Seriously, I hope for progress in Iraq. The faster we get our troops out of harm's way the better. One can hope for progress and still condemn conduct done under the name of progress. Some folks out there supported the war in Vietnam, but few would support the massacres in My Lai. The standards we hold our troops to must be higher than this.
     
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    IJ Reilly

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    #10
    If that would be wrong, then I don't want to be right!:p
     
  11. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #11
    Hey, if nothing else we can thank zimv20 for enriching our fantasy life! What a mental image! LOL
     
  12. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #12
    natalie portman has ms. deneuve tied to a chair in the hot, humid boiler room and is feeding her wet strawberries.

    back on topic: i'm not seeing any headlines about the strongarm tactics. what's up? have we become that cynical?
     
  13. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    “Any means that leads to the aim suits me... whether it is the most violent or that which appears to be most peaceable.” --Frederick Engels
     
  14. macrumors 6502

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    #14
    We don't have a clue what's being done on a daily basis on the ground by the US. For all we know all manner of wrong-doing may be going on. The likelihood is that, as the number of US casualties increases, more and more expedient tactics will be utilized.

    That's why I, and many others, would like to have seen the UN go in weeks ago.
     
  15. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    indeed. is it all mob-inspired tactics? can the military be charged under the RICO act?
     
  16. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #16
    My typing may be shaky from laughing so hard, but if I have to stay on topic, I'd say yes we have become that cynical. It's not just the US coverage -- look at the BBC story at their website about US troops being shot at. It ends with this little tidbit, "Meanwhile, the Arab television station al-Jazeera reported on Monday that US troops had released its reporter Nawaf al-Shahwani and his driver, who were detained after filming an Iraqi civilian vehicle coming under fire from a US military patrol.

    Mr Shahwani was said to be in good health after his release but the tape, which the station wants back, remains confiscated." Hmmm, civilians under fire from a US patrol and possible cover up doesn't even rate an investigation?

    link
     
  17. macrumors member

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    I don't know what the fuss is about just because some civilians were detained for a while to get the husband and father to turn himself in. Instead of using bullets and bombs, the troops used their brains and got the desired result. (Also, if you note, the wife and daughter would not have been detained indefinitely if the guy hadn't shown up). In legal terms, one could classify such detention as detaining a material witness (questioning about the location of the person they wanted to talk to), or taking someone into protective custody. (After all, if they were going to raid the guy's house when he showed up, it would be a good idea for his wife and kid not to be in the house. So, no, ends don't justify the means as a general rule, but legitimate ends and legitimate means are fine, and that is what we had here.

    zimv20,
    What are you talking about reporting your post? To whom? And why?
     
  18. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    guess not. let's include the media in the RICO lawsuit.
     
  19. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #19
    wow this is great...

    great great stuff.

    How do you know they would be held for a long period of time?

    Protective Custody?!?!?!?

    It was against their will and against what they wanted to do, it wasn't helping them...

    MacFan -- If you ever want to see your ____ again turn yourself in.

    Don't take it personally but the U.S should have a random demand...
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #20
    it's comforting to know that i can still find some ari-spin now that the real ari's gone...:rolleyes:

    i wonder why we don't take civilians from their homes and leave notes here in the u.s.? oh yeah, that whole individual rights balogna...

    and to think we're there to establish a humane government...
     
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    pseudobrit

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    #21
    Don't feed the trolls after they've been banned... it just adds to their sense of accomplishment.
     
  22. macrumors member

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    #22
    Folks,
    Protective custody or material witness detentions are good analogies, but it is a war over there, not a criminal investigation.

    MrMacman,
    If you read the article more closely and you will see that they would have been released "in due course."

    If they were taken into custody from their home which was likely to become a combat zone, the troops were doing them a favor whether they realized it or not.

    What "random demand" should the US have? Everyone stand on their right foot and jump up and down?

    pseudobrit,
    What are you talking about?
     
  23. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #23
    You mean, like Jose Padilla?
     
  24. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #24
    Sanfeliovibond
     
  25. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #25
    soldiers are supposed to behave according to rules of conduct. loosely, fight the enemy soldiers and protect the civilians. kidnapping civilians goes so far beyond the line it's nearly incomprehensible to me that anyone would even try to defend it.

    i doubt the guy had the article at hand for him to know that. and if iraqis were living under a regime as brutal as you say, what do you think that iraqi would have assumed was happening to his family?

    if al qaeda kidnapped the bush twins, would you call that protective custody? what if the treasury department grabbed your family and forced you to make a quarterly tax payment?
     

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