This is how we beat the Neocons

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Guys- I'm tired and fed up. I'm quickly reaching my breaking point with this country and this administration. The politics of fear has ruled for far too long and I think I'm right when I say we're all sick of it.

    I remember 1992 and the campaigns that ensued. I was still in a college town in Ohio back then, and we had endured far too many years of Reagan and Bush. I and many of friends had been desperate and jobless- even homeless at points, while trying to attend school. I don't know why, but we all sort of accepted it as the way life was. We banded together and helped each other.

    Then all of a sudden, Bill Clinton came along and with one single quote, and won the election. "It's the economy, stupid." In other words, take care of home first, then the rest of the world.

    Now, as much as I was not a huge fan of Clinton, it was his attitude that inspired us to vote, get involved and after he was elected have one of the most innovative, creative and prosperous decades in American history. Clinton, for all of his faults, was an extremely positive man. I remember when I first moved to Chicago in the fall of 1992 and he got elected. The feelings were so unbelievably hopeful.

    In two words the message was, "You Can" or if you prefer "I Will". "I will" was actually printed on the Chicago El trains at the time. Coming from Ohio, where the prevailing attitude was "you can't", it was refreshing.

    I and many of my friends, thrived here in the 90's and we still (for the most part) do. But I see the damage the Bush administration's policies have done. We've gone backwards with his policies of fear and intimidation.

    Isn't it time we were inspired again? Isn't it time we had hope again? Isn't it time we stood up and said we want our country and liberties back? Isn't it time we become the innovators we have been in the past again?

    In short- isn't it time we became the BEST again? And isn't it time we said "WE WILL" again?
     
  2. atari1356 macrumors 68000

    atari1356

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    #2
    It IS time... but I don't see much explanation of "how" in your post. I'm all for positive attitudes, but I don't think anything will change until Bush is out (along with his drinking buddies). My question is, how do we get Bush out of office before his term is up? ;)

    (wow, did I actually just make a post in the political forum? *gasp*)
     
  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    I didn't give you a "how". I gave you a "why". Bush most likely will stay there until his term is up. However, this attitude is EXACTLY "how" we will beat these bastards. The "how" to make things better is actually up to all of us. When we are afraid, we don't do our best, we just do what's necessary. When we feel confident and supported (and most importantly, when we have earned, and not feel we deserve respect) is when we do our best, at least that's my experience. And please, these are OLD morals folks.

    I really think this is the angle that needs to be taken. Let's start telling people what they are capable of, not what they should be afraid of. I know that scares the crap out of the neocons. :) They hate it when people actually stand up for themselves and compete with them. ;) Because that is exactly when they lose.

    To make it simpler: Let's sell HOPE, not fear.
     
  4. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Wow- nothing except the last post? Scary. I guess I should just move to Canada then. ;)
     
  5. Danksi macrumors 68000

    Danksi

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    #5
    Move along.. Nothing to see up here...
     
  6. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #6
    Once again we find ourselves in agreement. ;) You're absolutely right in that we need to help people lift themselves up instead of holding them down, but there's more to it than that. We need to work on fixing our own problems before we try to "help" everyone else. We need to stop glorifying the destruction and fragmentation of the family unit (and I'm not referring to gay marriage here), laziness, and ignorance. We need to become a true world leader again, and the only way to do that is by example. In short, America needs to grow its gonads back.
     
  7. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    You are correct corvus. Oh God! I'm agreeing with you again? :) Jesus! ;)

    It's more about building ourselves up again anyway, no matter who we are. We need to stop this BS black/white/gay/straight separation and realize that we are a WHOLE country and we all matter. Once we do that, we're invincible. Can we agree on that? And this administration has tried to stop that. I think that is sad.

    I mean- you may not like me but, we all live here.

    But that's the point, isn't it? That's what the US means. We can disagree and still live together. That's what I've been trying to say. We normally come together when we need to. I think we need to do that now.

    But we still sit here and divide ourselves. Why?

    We all basically believe the same things.
     
  8. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #8
    All the Dems have to do is stop sucking so much and they will win. Hell, at this point, they can even suck a lot, just say they aren't as bad as the Repubs. We don't even need someone to inflame the troops the way Clinton did (who BTW I only like now for some reason), just people who aren't that bad.

    Good news for Dems (and hopefully the rest of us), but kinda sad a little at the same time because our expectations are so low.
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    While agreeing with you in theory, lee, I should point out that the Democrats seem to be rather inept at implementing such an idea. Remember Kerry's refrain from 2004: "Hope is on the way"? (Or "Help is on the way," depending on which version he was using that day.) I think a lot of people felt that the message was good, but Kerry wasn't a particularly convincing messenger.

    Clinton was good at conveying hope, just as Kennedy was. But guys with those kinds of personalities are relatively rare, especially in the Democratic party.

    It does, however, convey to you what kind of personality the Dems need to run in 2008. What I take from your suggestion is that the Dems shouldn't just look at which candidate is the most well-known, or has the appropriate positions on issues, but which one has charisma and conveys a sense of hope.

    Don't make it your last one. :)
     
  10. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #10
    Wishful thinking but a Collin Powel - George Mitchell administration would be something good to see.
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    Colin Powell?? The man who more or less admits he helped to sucker the country into an illegal war by lying to the UN? The man who helped to cover up the My Lai massacre? That Colin Powell?
     
  12. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    #12
    You mean the one you guys call "Colon" instead of "Colin."
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Seems apt enough...
     
  14. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    Bingo. Isn't that what I said? :)
     
  15. Black&Tan macrumors 6502a

    Black&Tan

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    #15
    Upon reflection, I think the Bushies suckered him. He was kept outside of the loop far enough so that he believed what he was saying at the time. He retired, but I think privately, he was pretty bitter about the whole thing.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2095756/
     
  16. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #16
    Barack Obama seems like he can convey hope pretty well :).

    e
     
  17. atari1356 macrumors 68000

    atari1356

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    #17
    I understand what you're saying, and agree completely.

    A big part of the problem has been the mainstream media - spreading fear for the sake of ratings (or perhaps in some cases, spreading the fear/hate because they work for the far right).

    Fear gets ratings, and there are plenty of small terrorist incidents to keep those kinds of news stories going. Does hope get ratings? Maybe... but it seems like these days the only good news you read/see are fluff pieces about some old lady striking it rich in the lottery or a dog being rescued.

    I guess the best we can do is have hope within ourselves and try to give hope to the people in our lives.
     
  18. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #18
    There is ZERO Democratic leadership in this country at the mo.
     
  19. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #19
    Someone else suggested he was more or less suckered into presenting the facts in this way. Being left out of the loop. Watch video #5 and it shows his disagreements and what not with the "Bush circle."

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pentagon/view/

    I trust you believe PBS is a worthy news site. Not some damned disinformation campain :rolleyes:
     
  20. Black&Tan macrumors 6502a

    Black&Tan

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    #20
    After doing a little more searching on Powell, I found this article at Salon.

    http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/blumenthal/2005/04/28/powells_revenge/index.html

    It's an interesting take on the in-fighting within the administration, Bolton and Rice. It's also EXTREMELY INTERESTING to note that Bolton tried "to coerce a State Department intelligence officer to agree to an unfounded report about nonexistent Cuban WMD." Jeeze...where does the administration find these people!?? With Hugo Chavez's (Venezuelan President) close ties to Cuba, it makes me wonder if the "unfounded invasion plans" he claims the US is creating is actually on the money?

    This is why Bush has to GO! We need a President we can trust, not someone that causes us to question everything, from allies to enemies, good and bad, and everything in between. I swear, if he says the sky is blue, I'm going to start wondering why he's saying it and if it's not actually teal.....
     
  21. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #21
    Watch the video if you are lazy and don't want to read :)
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    It seems true (apart from Hilary Clinton) and is certainly a bad thing if so but as a non American it's difficult to know. Though not being an American the thing I want most is a competent president who is capable of understanding other countries unlike the current one. :rolleyes:
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    i don't think that's true. there is a perception that is so, and that may be just as bad.

    howard dean, imo, is doing an excellent job heading the party. harry reid is loads better than tom daschle was, and he and pelosi have been important unifying forces in their respective houses.

    the dems don't have a unified platform, which could be viewed as a problem or not. personally, i think the party is too large and varied to share every platform point. reid, for example, is pro-life.

    there is a fascinating thing happening in the party right now, and that's the struggle for control. dean has pissed off many from the established party leadership, like senator clinton, with his 50-state plan. as we all know, party stalwart lieberman was defeated by a newcomber, who represents not a "liberal extremist," as the GOP and media would lead us to believe, but a return to the grassroots and the power of the people.

    i find that very exciting, and the kind of break the dems need to make, on a national level, from the big business politics that both major parties engage in now.
     
  24. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #24
    Well even my rabidly democratic step mother agrees with that, and we frequently get into cat fights over even the slightest of my right-leanings.

    I think that is part of the problem. The Republicans have one, it just sucks ass.
     
  25. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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