This is why we need national gun laws

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. rdowns, Feb 11, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013

    macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    Just shaking my head over "outraged" gun owners. I wonder where else this crap can happen. Oh yeah, good going Florida.

    Penn. closes loophole allowing mail order of concealed gun permits from Florida


     
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    Peace

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    All I can say is Huh Penn. ? How is it someone can get a state issued permit from a different state than the one you reside in ?

    :confused:
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

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    #4
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    Peace

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    Is it not Florida issuing the license to someone from a different state than the one the licensee resides in ?

    This is a states issue not a federal one.
     
  6. thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    The fact that Florida will issue a permit via mail order to an out of state person refused a permit elsewhere. I wonder if Florida does this for any of the other 35 or so states it has reciprocal agreements with.
     
  7. Guest

    eric/

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    Well idk about needing national gun laws. Maybe states just need to make theirs more effective.

    Besides, how many people mail order their concealed carry permits?
     
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    Moyank24

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    Who cares how many people? The people who would be doing it would be the ones who probably shouldn't be carrying anyway. Whether that number is 10 or 1000, it's still too many.

    Edit: From the article:

    And regarding the mail order CCW - I wonder what requirements you would need and how you would prove them?
     
  9. thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #9
    Who cares how many? Are you really OK with a state issuing a permit where another has denied it?
     
  10. Guest

    eric/

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    #10
    I didn't say I was ok with it, in fact, I said states should straighten out their laws. I was wondering just how big of a problem this was. Was everybody in the state doing it? Or a dozen people?
     
  11. thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    As the article stated, 4,000.

    4,000 people running around with CCWs in a state that denied them. THat's ****ing crazy.
     
  12. Guest

    eric/

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    Ah, guess I missed it. Idk if I would call it "XXX" crazy. I think that's a little shrill. The state should react appropriately and cease letting these permits be issues, and go find the individuals that have had them issued and resolve the problem.
     
  13. macrumors P6

    Peace

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    It only takes one person to go on a killing spree.

    Or join the L.A.P.D.
     
  14. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #14
    Actually, I think relegating gun laws to the states has been a bad idea. First, we see a wide range of different laws, which makes it complicated and difficult for gun owners to know state law and requirements for concealed carry/open carry/transport.

    Moreover, a single national law could beef up the NICS requirements and eliminate gun-walking from one state to another, which is effectively illegal though rarely prosecuted.

    It would have to be a true compromise: gun owners might end up more restricted in some cases, but they'd get the benefit of regularization of gun laws. We could also take this opportunity to regularize the requirements of licensed dealers—that some keep records on napkins should be cause for a loss of license and failure to keep accurate, up-to-date records should come with prosecution.
     
  15. Guest

    eric/

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    #15
    Not necessarily a bad idea, but I think there will be a conflict because you'll have states such as California, with stricter gun laws competing against states that don't have laws as strict. So idk how you balance that out without banning things.

    ----------

    If only cops could protect us :(
     
  16. macrumors 6502a

    webbuzz

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    #16
    Florida still performs a NICS check and requires applicants provide fingerprints when applying for a non-resident CWFL. It would be nice to know the reasons why Pennsylvania denied these individuals a LTCF.
     
  17. macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    But do they have to show proof that they know how to shoot? That they've taken X hours of classes? Or can anyone just apply for it?
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #18
    Only things I could think of is, not really surprised, most gun laws have bleeding holes in them due to politicians being in the pockets of the NRA.

    The other thing, seeing the AG's name, I immediately thought of;

    [​IMG]


    Yeah... I know, I read too many comics (and to explain the joke, Batwoman, an openly lesbian superheroine, is Gotham City socialite Kate Kane).
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    webbuzz

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    #19
    Do you know the state laws in every state you visit? It is up to the individual to understand state and local firearms laws.


    It is not illegal to purchase a rifle or handgun in a different state in which you reside. There are laws that must be followed (depending on state).

    A long gun can purchased in many states and you can walk out with it. Some states will require the long gun be shipped to an FFL in your state.

    A handgun can be purchased in many states. The handgun will have to be shipped to an FFL in your state.

    A firearms dealer, gun shop, retail store or an FFL, is not going to jeopardize their license, and risk of jail time or fines.

    There are already federal laws that regulate firearms dealers. Do you have a source for dealers that keep records on napkins? They are required to keep the form 4473 for each firearm sold for 20 years. The BATFE does audit dealers and FFL's at random, those that fail are fined and can lose their license.

    Tell me, what would you change?
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    This would require some serious negotiation between our national legislators—pauses for laughter— but we can compromise. I think giving up direct bans, while making requirements for ownership, sales, and even liability would be the way to go.

    Bans that are limited to only a state or county are difficult to maintain and that might be worth horse-trading for a stronger regulation nationwide that still protects gun owners.
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    webbuzz

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    #21
    Yes.

    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/acceptable_training_documentation.html

    edit: Some states that require training for a CCW, will not honor a CCW from a state that does not require training for a CCW.
     
  22. Guest

    eric/

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    Yeah, that sounds like a much better plan to solve this type of problem. I don't think I'd like to see liability, but it would depend on the details.
     
  23. macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23
    Why are states issuing permits of any kind to non-residents? You can't get a drivers license in a state you don't reside in, gun permits shouldn't be any different.
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    vastoholic

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    #24
    That was my exact thought. Sounds like Florida needs to alter their laws as well. Why the heck was it legal to mail order a conceal carried license in the first place, much less to an entirely different state? So how does one go about closing this loophole? Do you stop the mail? Make it to where Florida is no longer able to to sell to PA residents? I'm still reading this thread, but was it legal to have one of these permits the whole time, or would someone have been prosecuted to having the improper permits if they were caught with it.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    Sure it is, but this seems like a problem. I've heard gun owners complain about the difficulties and confusion about transporting a gun across state lines, such as having a gun in the dash of a car. Can it be loaded? In which state? This isn't an ideal situation.

    Sure, but again, that depends on the state. Do you think that this causes problems and confusion?

    Sorry, not a napkin, but "water-stained sheets of paper" or "hand-scrawled index cards" as this NYTimes story notes, the ATF struggles with identifying the owner of a particular firearm.


    One shop in Biggerville, Penn. couldn't account for 3,732 guns, but has remained open for 14 months after an ATF audit.

    And, gun shops have openly fought requirements to help track firearms sales even for 'gun-walking' cases in Ariz.


    As for what would I change, I'd require gun dealers to have a computerized system to track sales. A failure to properly do so would result in closure and liability, including fines and forfeiture. All weapons would be subject to NICS and gun sales would not be possible without transfer papers equivalent to the transfer of an automobile.
     

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