This isn't correct is it? But...

Discussion in 'Community' started by 5300cs, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. 5300cs macrumors 68000

    5300cs

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    Nov 24, 2002
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    japan
    #1
    This is driving me nuts. I think I'm having one of those days. Is this sentence right or wrong?

    "When it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake."
     
  2. DanTekGeek macrumors 6502

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    Nov 11, 2004
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    Denver, CO
    #2
    no its not. "when it is sunny tommorow" is future tense. "lets go to the lake" is current tense.
     
  3. dotnina macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    #3
    Hmm ...

    I think it would be better if it read, "If it is sunny tomorrow, we will go to the lake." I *think* this is better. Something makes me think this is one of those we / us things ... you can't say us, you must say we. Then you end up with "we go to the lake," so you need to add something like a "will" or a "shall" in there to make it sound ok.

    Now, if the weatherperson said that the sun will be coming out late in the day, it would make sense to say "When it is sunny tomorrow ..." In that case, though, I think you'd need to change the second part of the sentence to say "... we will go to the lake." Somehow, "let's go" doesn't sound correct in that case, though the grammatical reason escapes me.

    ---
    Edit: Darn my slow posting.
    Edit2: Added more.
     
  4. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #4
    'when it is sunny tomorrow, we will go to the lake' is correct

    If it is sunny tomorrow, then we will go to the lake


    i believe those two are correct
     
  5. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #5
    The "when" sentence is wrong because it presumes it will be sunny tomorrow, but no one knows the future. Since you don't know the future you have to say "if"
     
  6. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #6
    It really should read, "Supposedly it will be sunny tomorrow, so lets go to the lake."
     
  7. saabmp3 macrumors 6502a

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    Tacoma, WA
    #7
    I'm an engineer, not english major, but I believe that would be a passive tense, something frowned upon.

    BEN
     
  8. 5300cs thread starter macrumors 68000

    5300cs

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    japan
    #8
    Thanks everyone for all your quick replies.

    I told the teachers also that "When it clears up tomorrow, let's go to the lake." would be okay.

    This is a junior high school text book put out by the Japanese government, too :rolleyes:
     
  9. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #10
    i am an english major (but im not great with grammar because i do literature studies not grammar, so i can rip books to shreds, and i do my own Creative writing, so i try to break any rules in part, and partly obey them some of the time)

    but anyways, passive voice really is not a bad thing. The way it is used in most people's papers causes it to become a problem, there are debates about this that just go on and on, just like grammar, these topics are not my area of specialty but passive is not a bad thing, people just assume that any passive is bad and should not be used, but in some cases, there really is nothing wrong with that tense, it just shouldnt be used throughout a whole paper.....

    ok i think im going to go back to writing my poetry now, and reading, make myself sane again
     
  10. realityisterror macrumors 65816

    realityisterror

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    Snellville, GA
    #11
    english is stupid, so let's go to the lake...

    reality
     
  11. Jalexster macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    #12
    "i r teh n00b, so let go 2 teh lake tomorrow because it is teh sunny!11!!11!!1"

    Um, I mean:

    "If it becomes sunny tomorrow, we will go to the lake."
     
  12. BakedBeans macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    #13
    actually....

    you can say that.... english is a funny language because you can say so many things in so many ways, and half the time it can sound wrong but still be right

    if it is sunny tomoz, lets got to the lake
    but if its cloudy tommoz, lets stay inside and have a few beers

    works perfectly
     
  13. camobag macrumors regular

    camobag

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    Nov 4, 2003
    #14
    Ok...for all of you that are using the word, "if," in the sentance, stop using it! If you use that word you change the meaning of the sentance. The author originally used the word, "When." It's not a matter of "if" it will be sunny tomorrow, but "when" it is sunny tomorrow. Also, for the sentance, I would just say, "Tomorrow, when it is sunny, let's go to the lake."
     
  14. BakedBeans macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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  15. Cheese macrumors 6502

    Cheese

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    #16
    When it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake.

    Let's go to the lake tomorrow, when it's sunny.
    Tomorrow, when it's sunny, let's go to the lake.
    When the sun comes out tomorrow, let's go to the lake.

    Perhaps the japanese / english translation would be more accurate in meaning if it was to say; "After the sun comes up tomorrow, let's go to the lake -- and drink lot's of Sake and a couple of barrels of Asahi! Bring the iPods and my G5 Powerbook along for the ride."
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #17
    It's fine. Switch it around and it's grammatically fine:

    "Let's go to the lake when it's sunny tomorrow."

    It just sounds odd because of the clause order.
     
  17. Mr_Ed macrumors 6502

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    North and east of Mickeyland
    #18
    In the event that the sun's rays are not interfered upon tomorrow, we should endeavor to travel to the lake.

    Just kidding . . . but the original sentence (When it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake.) just sounds really weird to me for the same reason DanTekGeek cited. Can't say that it is "wrong" necessarily, just "strange."

    If it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake. would make more sense to me.
     
  18. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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    #19
    "when it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake" cannot be transformed to "when it is sunny tomorrow, we will go to the lake" without changing the meaning of the sentence. The former is a suggestion, awaiting ratification by another individual. The latter is a declarative sentence, stating that a trip will be taken to the lake at some time during the day when there is a significant amount of solar radiation reaching the earth.

    The real issue with this sentence is that the future tense implied by tomorrow is tied to the dependent clause "When it is sunny" and not the independent clause (the heart of the sentence) "let's go to the lake." This sentence would be best as "Let's go to the lake tomorrow, when it is sunny." It's inverted alternate, "When it is sunny, let's go to the lake tomorrow," however, sounds even worse. A better probable inverted alternative would be "Tomorrow, when it is sunny, let's go to the lake." The issue seems to be that the timeframe is best specified near the beginning, however, the initial attempt to do so resulted in it being attached to the dependent clause, skewing the emphasis.
     
  19. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #20
    It depends on the context. If the context is, it's going to be sunny all day tomorrow, then "when it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake" is not grammatical. However, if the context is, it will be rainy in the morning, sunny midday, and cloudy in the afternoon, then "when it is sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake" is perfectly grammatical.
     
  20. zelmo macrumors 603

    zelmo

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    #21
    yeah, yeah, sentence structure blah blah blah...

    Who is the girl in your 'tar???
     
  21. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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    #22
    For the most part, I agree. However, in a purely logical framework, the original sentence does not directly set the timeframe for the excursion to lake, but only the time frame for the occurence of sun. Constraints on a dependent clause do not also cover the independent clause. However, a constraint on an independent clause, would naturally be implied for the entire sentence. Thus, "Let's go to the lake tomorrow..." would be more accurate. Alternately, if 'tomorrow' is at the beginning of the sentence, it can be assumed it applies to the whole sentence.
     
  22. pivo6 macrumors 68000

    pivo6

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    #23
    I believe it's Jenny McCarthy with black hair.
     
  23. Squire macrumors 68000

    Squire

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    #24
    As far as I'm concerned, broken_keyboard hit the nail on the head. That sentence assumes that it will in fact be sunny tomorrow which is odd. The grammatical structure of the sentence is fine, it's just a strange choice of words.

    Ex. #1

    When I get my new convertible, let's drive to the country.

    Seems okay, right?

    Ex. #2

    When he is older, let's take him to a brothel.

    This structure, with it's use of the verb to be, is even closer to the original. However, the assumption here is more accurate: He will get older. So, again, the problem is with the use of when rather than if.

    Squire
     
  24. rueyeet macrumors 65816

    rueyeet

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    MD
    #25
    The other thing that makes the original sentence sound odd is that it uses a contraction in one clause, but not the other. It should either be

    When it's sunny tomorrow, let's go to the lake. -or- When it is sunny tomorrow, let us go to the lake.

    But that's purely stylistic, and not a grammatical necessity.
     

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