This might be illegal

Discussion in 'Community' started by Chad4Mac, Nov 6, 2002.

  1. Chad4Mac macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #1
    Sorry if you are an ebay seller -- I think all consumers should be notified on Apple's new prices throughout its Laptops.

    Normally I would not do this -- buyer be ware. But I need the used ebay iBooks to drop in price!
    I lieu of my intense desire to have a iBook as my new home stereo (meaning throw away the CD Player, while keeping the receiver, and use a used White iBook for (MP3) music with JBL Speakers *see below), I have started notifying ebay buyers that they are paying to much for thier used machines. I have seen people bidding on used iBooks for more than a Brand New iBook today.

    I mean if they are overbidding on used iBooks, wouldn't it make sense to go directly through Apple and buy the new iBook for cheaper if not the same price? They just simply don't know any better, and it actifically overvalues the price of the used iBook. Eventually the ebay prices will drop, but it will take time -- too much time.

    In addition, it would be better for these overbidding buyers to buy directly through Apple, and not cunsumer "sellers". It equals more revenue for Apple (good thing), a garenteed product, a better product (updates), and more opportunities for cheap-asses like me to buy a 600 mhz iBook for five hundred or less.

    A simple e-mail to the highest bidders will due.

    Please help?

    Chad4CheaperUsediBookPricesOnEbay

    (*I can see it now...iBook as my stereo. Friends come over to the house for a drink or two before we go out. They bring special CD to listen too -- I tell them to import the CD into the Mac and press play. They have a song that they want to listen too but I don't have it -- Limewire already launched and running with two terabytes available. It is a win-win situation!)
     
  2. job macrumors 68040

    job

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2002
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    #2
    Re: This might be illegal

    I was wondering about the true purpose about this thread until I read that line...
     
  3. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Location:
    where the concrete to dirt ratio is better
    #3
    if you are too dumb to realize that you can buy new for less than a used, it is your damn fault. send emails to these people would be unfair and bad business.

    you are seriously saying that if you could get an extra $500, you would turn it down?


    BUYER BEWARE.
     
  4. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #4
    Re: This might be illegal

    Let's see here. A bid is considered by ebay as a contract to purchase in the event you are the high bidder. Now you, a third party sees two people who have entered into a binding agreement to buy and sell an item at the highest bid price. You decide to try to induce the potential buyer into breaching the agreement in order to damage the market for used computers.

    Wow, that's certainly interesting.
     
  5. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #5
    There have been a few eBay scams, one I can remember, when someone bidded $10000, or something ridiculous, on a Powerbook, and the Auction had to be closed. That truly is sad. :(

    BTW: Enjoy the Powerbook, mcrain! :D
     
  6. Chad4Mac thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #6
    Re: Re: This might be illegal

    If the breech agreement (cost) is lower than the benefit of recieving a better, cheaper Apple product, then breech.

    A email to the highest bidder doesn't mean that he/she is the actual buyer; at the time of the email he/she is just the highest bidder. Before the auction closes the bidder may leave the the aution off technicality. Then the bidder offering the second highest bid (now the highest) will win, that if no one out bids hime/her.

    Where's the damage?

    The market will adjust now matter what.

    If the bidder wants too: Then that recently high bidder goes to the Apple Store (.com) and buys a iBook computer for a comparable price. He gets a new iBook and the used iBook seller get the fair market value (maybe even higher value because you've only got rid of one bidder -- there are other bidders). Plus it's probably over the reserve value -- the value the auctioner places on that item.

    The harm is with the bidder; he/she will recieve a bad mark (cost) if need be, but will recieve a better product (benefit). He/she must way the benefits and the costs.

    "Damage" might be a bit to harsh. The market will always adjust. If anything, consumers are getting ripped off -- without information. Everyone, is left happier, just off a simple email.

    Think of it as information sharing...interesting.

    Chad4mac
     
  7. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #7
    I think this situation is worth thinking about.

    Because this eBay is effectively running an auction, the normal rules and regulations of an auction should apply. But the semantics of operating over the internet present complications that warrant flexibility in the rules of sale.

    Consider, for instance, an auction for a brick of gold started now and ending in a month. I place the first bid on the gold (at its current fair value) and the price of gold immediately halves. Now there is no way that I would pay the price I originally bid on if it was on the market. Therefore the seller of the gold will make a substantial profit simply from fortuitous timing.

    If this circumstance is enforced by eBay, they are basically acting as an exchange and the bid becomes a buy on a future on the underlying item on that exchange. A bid is effectively a bought future that cannot be sold except by a third party's (alien to both you and the seller) decision to place a bid.

    Ebay is not an exchange. They are a venue for auctions. They say so in thei rules and regulations. By not acting to void this type of transaction (at the user's request) I believe they are overstepping their bounds. They are effectively allowing a seller to scam a buyer in a rapidly changing market.

    This isn't the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and these bids shouldn't act as futures in rapidly changing markets. The length of most auctions on eBay makes this a ridiculous proposition.

    Taft
     
  8. evildead macrumors 65816

    evildead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Location:
    WestCost, USA
    #8
    eBay

    There was a guy that sold a Nickel for several dollars a few years ago on eBay... "There is a sucker born every min"

    You can go out and screem at the moutains but you will never stop every one from picking up a hot frying pan... it just wont work. Thats very noble of you to try and tell people that they are not getting much of a deal... but then again.. it looks like your trying to get bids to be lower for your slef. If you were selling something on eBay... would you stop the bids when they got to be higher than what every you were selling was worth?

    Macs also have a very high resale value... you have to factor that in as well.


    I was working for a guy a while ago that wanted me to upgrade his older G3 bagie Tower. I told him it was not worth the money for the CPU, RAM, FireWireHD, PCI cards, and the money he would have to pay me to do it all. I did the right thing and risked a pay cut to tell him what he really should do.. he thought he knew better and ended up paying something close to $1600 total for everything. And it still didnt work right. He had some hardware problems that we found durring the upgrade... it never worked right. As soon as I would get it to work, the next day he would call me and it would not boot again.
     
  9. Chad4Mac thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #9
    update

    Got this message from ebay after my numerous emails to bidders of potential over valued iBooks and PowerBooks:

    "Sorry, you have exceeded the daily limit of emails that you can send with this system.
    Please try again another day."

    Oh well, tomorrow's another day...

    Maybe they are on to me...J/k

    Chad4Mac

    I feel like Nader.
     
  10. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #10
    Well, there are several distinct problems with what you are doing:

    It violates eBay policy.
    It is unsolicited mail.
    It is self serving.

    Basically, the stupidity of the masses is what powers 50% of all eBay transactions. There was a period when 128MB PowerMac DIMMs cost $18 at the store, and routinely sold for $50 on eBay.

    The PowerMac G4 733 I bought in February for $1252 sold in October for $1425.01...such is the nature of eBay.

    It would be far more ethical for you to just find a great retail deal on a refurb iBook, and quit rockin' the boat.
     
  11. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #11

    You could apply that example to any item up for bid that fluctuates wildly in value - gold, stock, computers, frozen concentrated orange juice... you could even apply it to a non-eBay-style e-commerce site like Amazon. I buy a new Mac from Amazon, I select ground shipping, and a day later, Apple comes out with new hardware that kills the value of the hardware I just ordered that hasn't even arrived yet.

    I don't see how they aren't both. If you look at it that way, Circuit City is an exchange, too - they almost exclusively sell items that will quickly depreciate in value. Yet they're still a legitimate business. I don't see why an auction site being an "exchange" is such a nasty thing. It's always the consumer's job to educate him/herself. It's common sense that some things decrease in value over time. It is the consumer's job to take this into account.

    3, 7, or 10 days is a ridiculous proposition?
     
  12. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #12
    The net allows you to be an informed consumer, if you fail to become one - it's your own darn fault.
     
  13. Chad4Mac thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #13
    What unethical about this? What is so wrong about this?

    "Violating" the rules? JESUS! I'm Robin Hood!

    These are, after all, potential Mac guys. Stupid they may be now now, but if they act on my email, they are smart. I'm actually sure they will like this "unsolicited" email.

    Self serving? You think after emailing twenty top bidders that I am going to have a major difference on the market price of used iBooks and Powerbooks. It's going to take a month -- atleast -- to drop the price on used iBooks and PowerBooks, even without a single email.

    I hope I just redirected/educated twenty high bidders to the Apple Store Website and they bought a brand new iBook or PowerBook. I hope they are happy and I made their day. It's the least I can do for all the help others have given me!

    Oh, and by the way, it just might speed up the process of me buying a used iBook for under five hundred bucks or less...
     
  14. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    All up in your bidness
    #14

    Robin Hood didn't steal from those who were contractually due money and give to the stupid, he stole from the unjustly rich and gave to the unjustly poor.
     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #15
    Re: update

    I don't think it's illegal, but it certainly isn't very ethical. And, well... it might actually be against eBay user policy. You better be careful, they just might be on to you. It's good of you to want to inform potential buyers of the alternatives, but you seem to be forgetting that you could also be hurting the sellers. You do seem to be doing this for somewhat selfish reasons.

    So please, don't compare yourself to Ralph Nader.

    You should probably stop this futile crusade before you do get into trouble. Try to find a nice used or refurb computer (which you should be able to do now with the recent upgrades and picedrops), or just suck it up and wait until you can afford something better. Besides, I wouldn't trust online auctions for multi-hundred $$$ purchases anyway.

    No offense, but there are a lot of people out there who seem to think like you.
     
  16. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #16
    Here's what is likely to happen:

    You email bidders doing them a service, and thinking you're gonna help trend the market down, thereby doing yourself a service.

    Buyers will cancel bids.

    Sellers will investigate the cancellations.

    Buyers will mention you.

    Sellers will complain to eBay.

    Prices will trend down, but you may not have an eBay account left to take advantage with!

    This is in clear violation of eBay policy, and they will catch on in days!
     
  17. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    Location:
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    #17
    Re: update

    you are a bitter loser. you a crying because you can't get what you want. go back to 4th grade.

    it is against ebay policy to send unsolicited email to bidders. last time i checked, there is a ~$5 fine for EVERY unsolicited email sent. hope you didn't send too many.

    i wish i knew your ebay name so i could turn YOU into ebay.
     
  18. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #18
    aw, come on guys, give him a chance. What's a little disturbance in the hell known as e-bay going to do? So what if it hurts sellers, besides, there's still plenty of stupid people out there who will still bid over the actual value of a computer...

    The thing I like e-bay for is searching for good musical instruments... Of course, there are always the nazi's who come in with super-high bids in the last 10 seconds of the auction...
     
  19. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #19
    Of course e-bay probably is a good way to launder drug money ...

    So stop sending letters to these people, lest you be visited and taught a lesson.
     
  20. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    Location:
    Chicago
    #20
    Kewl. When was the last time we had a lively discussion? Too long, I think...

     
  21. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #21

    That's true. I'm not sure what the big stink about it is, though. It's made clear in eBay's rules, which you must read in order to get an account, and it's just one of the restrictions buyers subject themselves to for the privilege of being able to use eBay.

    You could resell it for exactly the same price provided it didn't depreciate in value due to market forces (price drops, new competition, new Apple products, etc.) before you did so. The only difference between this and eBay then is that by using eBay, you subject yourself to a delay of 3-10 days between the time you bid and the time the auction ends and the price is set in stone. They key factor is that you are bidding - you are logging into your account, which was created when you agreed to eBay's terms of service, and you are entering into a legally binding contract to pay an amount as high as the amount you bid if you win the item. eBay is very clear about this - whenever you bid, they remind you that a bid is a contract that obligates you to purchase the thing you bid on from the seller should you win the auction. They are very clear about the time it will take before the auction ends, the fact that bids cannot be retracted, and the fact that you are responsible for your own actions on their site.
     
  22. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #22
    So let me see here. You are trying to lower the prices of iBooks by reaching everyone who buys them at auction on eBay. So that you can steal music and share it with the world.


    You are a model citizen.
     

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  23. Choppaface macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #23
    this completely violates ebay's rules. hope you don't get punted.... the sellers are going to report you for sure..maybe even some of the more short-tempered buyers who think you're teasing them he he :D :D
     
  24. redAPPLE macrumors 68030

    redAPPLE

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    #24
    if you are the highest bidder, you just cannot cancel a bid. right?

    if so, and a lot of people would cancel their bids, sooner or later, eBay would cancel their memberships.

    and everyone gets cancelled. ;)

    it is an interesting theory though, pointing out to buyers that they are "overbidding".

    it is correct that the buyers need to bring their own intelligence, they need to be aware of a product's value.

    on second thought...

    damn those people who overbid the product's value...

    have a nice day. whereever you all are.
     
  25. redAPPLE macrumors 68030

    redAPPLE

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    #25
    Re: This might be illegal

    so you are that dirty bastard who keeps sending those emails to my potential buyers. :mad:

    when i get you... i'd shove my ibook (somewhere)... with the screen open. :D

    no seriously now.

    i think i can identify with your situation.
     

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