This One is Small, Even By Our Standards

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by agreenster, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. agreenster macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #1
    Hey everyone--its been a while since Ive done any major posting, and i didnt even follow this MW Tokey-yo-yo--but after checking the Apple site, I was bored.

    Yay. Added an inch and some resolution on the ol' Cinema Display. Yep. Still more expensive than the computer itself at 3500.00 dollars. Gimme a break. Only want 22 inches? (you sure thats enough?) 2500.00 dollars.

    Yay. 2000 songs in your pocket. For 500 bucks. Only want 1000? (are you sure that is enough?) Still 400 bucks.

    I know you can get these cheaper through other sources, but its still generally the same across the board, or higher. If Apple wants to increase their market, CUT THE FREAKING PRICES.

    You can get an ENTIRE PC for 400-500 bucks. Granted, they arent as stable, cool, or powerful as a Mac, but c'mon, we're talking about a fancy-schmancy walkman. We are BROKE here.

    Lastly--Bluetooth. Aaaaaahhhhh. Finally, something cool. I just hope they DO something cool with it.
     
  2. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #2
    re: This One is Small, Even By Our Standards

    yeah it was small....but they weren't pushing it as something "BIG"...

    the Bluetooth is killer....can't wait to hear some consumer feedback on that one...

    and a 10 gig iPod is pretty cool....but it's still too damned expensive!!

    I'm considering a 5 gig now that they are the lower end of the totem pole...provided I can get a decent price....he he he :p
     
  3. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Location:
    secret city
    #3
    I see your point...and I feel you man.

    But...allow me to qoute Jobs ...from the imac article in Time magazine...


    "If prices were all that we cared about, we'd all be driving Hyundais."
     
  4. menoinjun macrumors 6502a

    menoinjun

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    #4
    I'm still pretty psyched about all that came out at MWTokyo. I know that I will never be able to afford the 23 inch display or the 10gig iPod, the fact that they are available is great. Bluetooth is awesome, and I'm glad that Apple jumped on the bandwagon with it. I am interested to see a vid of the keynote to see what steve demo'd it with. (Palm, cell phone?) I was hoping for a 5 gig iPod price drop, but this will just delay my plans on getting one until further notice. (I really don't need one anyhow right now, but it would be cool)

    BTW...Does anyone know the transfer speed of Bluetooth? I guess that it can't be faster than 12Mb per second considering that it's a USB adapter.

    -Pete
     
  5. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #5
    Quick economics lesson

    There are two ways to make money as a company. You either go with a low profit margin and sell a lot of products, or you sell fewer and have a larger profit margin. If you go with high sales and a low margin, you become very susceptible to volatile market conditions, and if you don't sell enough because of competition, you're dead in the water. Look at how badly the windows computer makers are doing generally. their low margins and cut throat competition have made almost all off them unprofitable. Meanwhile apple has a lower market share and makes a lot more money than they do. Apple DOESN'T want to increase market share, at least, not as much as people seem to want them to. They aren't gunning for the other 95%, their going for like another 1-2%. There's a lot more money in it because of their strategy as a premium brand. Look at the auto industry, the same thing as happened. Who's making money: BMW, Mercedes ...brands like that. The big three are barely holding their own right now and are only even remotely doing alright because of huge incentives and zero % financing, which is going to kick them in the butts later on. Are apple's products expensive: yeah they are. But that might be the best price for apple to maximize profits. I'm certainly going to trust their economists and business people over the rantings of people who just want their stuff cheaper. Rather, I'd like to see apple move forward with technology. Their industrial design is ahead of everyone else, now its time to get all the underpinnings of the computer moving beyond everyone else as well. That way, they stay expensive, but become a much better deal.
     
  6. irmongoose macrumors 68030

    irmongoose

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Location:
    Sometimes Tokyo, sometimes California
    #6
    Okay to answer your question, as I was there, he demoed it with a Palm. It look a little long, so teh transfer speed shouldn't be that fast.

    I'm still rocking at Macworld!



    irmongoose
     
  7. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Location:
    Sydney
    #7
    Any MACWORLD would be exciting for me.
    The cinema diplays are awesome 23 inches of beauty.
    The ipods are cool but to expensive for me.
    And the imacs are just brilliant.
    Bluetooth is cool but can't you just plug the cord in, it would be quicker.

    Anyway it was ok
     
  8. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #8
    i wouldnt exactly call it small, it just call it the site of the biggest blunder in apple history (g4imac). all apple needed to do was a minor speed bump to the powerbook, but all they give us is less machine for more money (imac).

    and bluetooth, the only worthwhile annoucement and it didnt come from apple. lets remember folks apple isnt selling this. apple isnt integrating it into their computers. apple didnt design this. this is a third party developer. so apple essentially gave us nothing but higher prices and lies.

    all i can say is goodbye apple. ill see you again in several years when i become desparate for another computer or if you get rid of this idiot steve jobs whose idea of running a company is slapping some plastic on all the machines raising prices and decreasing market share all the while ignoring the customers needs/wants and ignoring what is at the core of all of this THE COMPUTER! i despise the wintel world as much as anyone here and will never buy one but i can say im also no buying apple and if that leaves me with no new computer for awhile so be it. choose your poison i guess, well i choose none of the above. i wont buy another apple until this one breaks (and we all know for apple's that means a LONG time) or if apple cleans up their act. i have no loyalty to apple so i wont stand to be treated like this. if i want someone to knock me down and call me clumsy i have an older brother who can do that.
     
  9. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #9


    A is for Amelio
    B is for Blunder

    Am I missing something...did they slow the iMac down?

    The MOST exciting thing is a ~750K wireless link (named after Scottish oral hygeine) to your iToaster?

    Put your CPU where your mouth is...I'm in the city, and will gladly schlep over to Berkeley to help you say goodby Apple (while I say hello)
     
  10. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #10
    well to clarify my feelinsg on the imac situation i thought i would post what i had to say about it from another thread:

    personally this last thing in a string of many has made the new iMac the biggest blunder in apple history.

    apple finally made a consumer product that all people would want to own. they spent massive amounts of money generating hype for this computer, drawing world attention to it which would come back to bite them in the end when the problems started.

    the price from the beginning was a about $200 too much but for many people they bit the bullet and ordered it.

    it was such an attractive deal that record numbers of iMacs were being ordered.

    the new iMac was catching the eye of many pc users and the potencial for new converts and the first step in increasing market share seemed to have been taken.

    but apple couldnt ship enough of the product. people were waiting months not weeks to get their computers. what started off as record numbers of orders was met by record numbers of cancelations. in fact apple was actually encouraging people to cancel their orders.

    apple customer care was doing its best to antagonize the customers even more with lies and rude behavior... and thats if you got any response at all.

    so the converts left. but now they had a really bad experience with apple that they would run out into the pc world and tell to all their friends and collegues. "joe over there tried to muy a mac but after fighting with apple's customer care for 3 months he finally just bought that nice little dell over there instead. go it in 3 days"

    many people wanted an imac but just couldnt get one. they held out hoping the new machine would finally start shipping. the unavailability and high price scared them off. the fact that you could buy a powermac at nearly the same price made them question the imac purchase but it was just such a beautiful and powerful machine they kept hoping it would finally become available.

    apple annouces increased prices rather than icreased availability and in addition to that, they flat out lied to all of their customers as to why the prices were increasing. anyone left considering buying an imac would have to be kicking themsleves for not ordering earlier (even though if they had they probably would still not have a computer) and many of these people would finally give up the dream. more lost converts and now a bunch of people who feel cheated.

    and then there is that lie hanging over apple's head. blaming the increased imac prices on lcd and ram costs. as if any intelligient person would believe this for long. i dont know if any of you have checked but um... ram hasnt increased in price since january (since december yes but not since january, in fact the trend since january has been down ever so slightly). apple's ram is already highly overpriced so i find it hard to believe apple could find ram costing anymore than they are already claiming it costs. further more the imac is not the only apple with ram in it. perhaps you forgot about the ibook, powerbook, powermac? no ram increases there. no changes in price there. now thats odd. so the only ram that is increasing in price is imac ram ... sure. and lcds... well wouldnt you know it all of apple's computers also have lcds... again the imac is the only one with a price bump. in fact the powermac lcds have a significant rebate right now. certainly not a sign of increased lcd prices if you ask me. maybe its just those little lcds... o wait the ibook and powerbook have little lcds. again no price bumps there. in fact apple just unveiled a new lcd. bigger and more expensive than ever, now if lcd prices were increasing why would apple try to sell a bigger lcd that would be very vulnerable to price increases since it is already so expensive?

    kind of odd that apple blames the price increase in the imac on parts that dont seem to be causing any problems in any other apple product. nope just the computer that apple suddenly noticed was much more highly demanded than they anticipated is meeting price increases.

    the price increase isnt due to hardware. no thats just a way of saving face. apple simply decided that they could make more money by raising the price since they couldnt sell in large numbers. simple as that. if you cant produce a lot then the ones you do produce should earn you a lot. but apple could hardly get up there and say "hey kids didnt realize you guys liked this thing so much, now that i know this its really gonna cost you." i just cant imagine that going over well. so they make up a story about lcd prices and ram prices and hope no one sees through their little scheme.

    so apple took a product that had the potencial to:
    1) finally deliver mac os x to the masses
    2) finally take steps toward increasing market share steve jobs has lost since he returned to apple
    3) and finally improve apple's image with the masses regardless of whether they buy one or not
    and turn it into a product that
    1) gave more bad press and bad impressions of apple
    2) made it harder to increase market share by pissing off massive numbers of potencial converts
    3) make running a computer capable of running osx (a g4) even more unattainable to the consumer level buyer.
    4) and degrade current customer loyalty by lying to and cheating customers

    what this all boils down to is apple was stupid and didnt anticipate the demand for the new imac. actually they probably werent prepared for any high level of manufacturing of the new imac. so they definitely werent prepared for the massive orders they recieved. their customer care service wasnt prepared for the massive amounts of calls complaining and inquirying about where their computer was. so apple first tried to get some people to cancel to hopefully alleviate the problem. then someone decided that raising prices would maintain revenue and decrease demand so that they could catch up in their manufacturing and maybe give a break to their customer care service. we blame it on someone else and we dont even come out looking too bad.

    if apple had been smart they would have spent all the money they wasted hyping this thing and spent it making sure their manufacturing was up to the task.



    or maybe i am just bitter because i finally decided to buy one last week spent a week selling things and getting enough money scraped together only to find i suddenly didnt have enough because of apple's price increase.

    but i got all this money now... maybe ill go buy a dell (jk, but seriously im not planning on buying anything from apple for a very long time not a boycott just a moratorium)
     
  11. Beej macrumors 68020

    Beej

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Buffy's bedroom
    #11
    Woah. That's a migthy long post you got there, AL!

    I just want to say that I wasn't expecting anything at all. Nothing. And I'm stoked that there was so much cool stuff released!

    The 23" is unreal, the 10 GB iPod is sweet, Bluetooth is cool, it's just too bad about the iMacs. Good thing I have already ordered mine!
     
  12. teabgs macrumors 68030

    teabgs

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Location:
    behind you
    #12
    I'm with Beej. I didnt expect so much to happen. I really like all the new toys, though I will never have one.

    AL, I'm sorry you feel that way. You have some valid points but I think you're taking it a bit harshly on Apple. The economy isnt so good right now and you dont know everything that caused these problems. Theyre just trying to keep it together. I'm sure everything will be worked out in time.

    Don't abandon Apple, just uyse your computer abit longer till you feel the price is right. I'm still on a 6500 and it works perfectly fine. OK, its a bit slow but hey, what r u gonna do? Im upgrading this summer. I've waited a LONG time and finally have almost enough money.
     
  13. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #13
    23"

    I'm actually looking forward to going to my local apple store and checking out the 23" monitor. The 22" was impressive, but all the extra resolution just makes it that much better.

    But the price is a little much right now.

    Now if they can squeeze some more pixels into their Ti and other flat screens, that would be great.
     
  14. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #14
    Re: AmbitiousLemon.

    It sure doesn't take much to piss you off, huh? Listen, I don't like this any more than you, but it certainly isn't the biggest blunder in the history of Apple. Not by a long shot.

    Do you remember when Apple had a glut of inventory back about a year ago? Do you remember what happened? They couldn't push out new products, they had to slash prices on existing product to move the stagnant units out the door, their profit projections went down and then their stock price plunged. In a company like Apple you *must* keep your inventory channels relatively clear. To do otherwise means death.

    So your two choices are to be guarded in your sales expectations and end up like Apple is currently, or overestimate sales expectations, massively increase production and end up like Apple was a year ago. I pick the former.

    And by the way, do you have any idea how long it takes to ramp up production? Its not as if you can just go tell the factory foreman, "You work harder now!" Think of all the parts that go into an iMac or any computer. They need to get all of those parts built faster, shipped faster, to the main assembly plant faster, shipped to the consumer faster. Not so easy when you already have contracts and sales orders and if even one part doesn't come through faster, the end product is delayed. Sure you can try to find alternate channels, but they won't always be there or be any faster. Its harder than a consumer might assume.

    What happened here was that they underestimated demand. Its not the first time this has happened to Apple and its not the first time they've given a product a minor price hike. Trying to get people to cancel orders to stave a riot by the populous is another technique companies will employ, and Apple tried here. It obviously didn't work.

    You can see that its not a good situation, not by a long shot. But you also have to realize that flat panels are coming off the manufacturers very slowly right now and for a premium. There are a lot of reasons why this makes sense--for Apple--from a financial perspective.

    Apple *has* made a mistake here. But the mistake is underestimating demand and market conditions, including the parts market. This move is an attempt to help the situation even if you see it as a betrayal.

    Matthew
     
  15. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Orlando
    #15
    BTW, AmibitiousLemon,
    Even though the iMac's got a minor price hike, they didn't cut any value from it, and previous orders are being honored, so those who went ahead and jumped the gun get a $100 discount for ordering early, even if they had to wait a little while. Plus, the iMac is in full scale production now, and they will be shipping somewhere around 5000 a day from now on until all orders are filled.
    So quit dissing Apple for making a good move in a difficult situation.
     
  16. agreenster thread starter macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #16
    Economics, Loyalty and Such

    Yeah yeah. I keep hearing the same old analogy. "Apple is the Ferarri of personal computing, thats why their prices are so high."

    Excuse me? Ferarri? Granted, Apple is a nice looking computer, but what does it offer that the PC world doesnt? Hey, I love my Apple, and I love OSX, but you have to admit Apple aint no Ferarri. If fact, in many cases, the PC outperforms the Apple hands down.

    What does Apple offer thats so superior? I mean, Windows XP isnt a walk in the park--and I dont like their style--but they still offer the same thing: simple home personal computing. You have to admit that the PC world has done an excellent job in making machines affordable and of relatively high quality.

    Economics be damned. I dont want to hear that the 23 inch Cinema Display is worth 3500 dollars because they want to sell less of them at higher prices. C'mon people. Everyone in the realm of personal computing (PC AND Mac) are DROOLING over this thing. So why not make it affordable? I bet you 100 bucks that it they'd make it affordable, they would triple their profit in sales because so many people would rather have a 23in Cinema Display instead of a standard CRT or flat monitor. Not ONE person in this thread, and no one I know claims to be willing to buy one. So, which would you rather have if you were Apple- 10 people loving the Cinema Display, and one person buying it for 3500-----or 10 people loving it, and 5 buying it for 1200?? Jesus. Thats not hard math.

    And YES, Apple DOES want to increase their market share- their original goal was to double their market. Thats an extra 5%. No, Apple doesnt want to be 95%, or even the majority, but if they keep their prices up, they are going to do nothing but piss people off and drive them away. (AmbitiousLemon for example)

    And what idiot said "Im just glad Apple has the 23 in monitor and the 10 gig iPod, even if I cant afford it." Hello dumb-ass. Thats like saying, I'm just glad my favorite grocery store has food, even though I cant afford to buy it.

    WHAT? Come ON! Why isnt anyone else sick and tired of Apple's arrogant self charging up the ASS for their hardware? Is it trimmed in 24k gold?

    And to those people who say "I wasnt expecting anything, so Im happy that we at least got SOMEthing."

    Thats like saying, "I havent gotten laid in weeks, so Im kinda happy I got raped!" Thats rediculous! I thought Apple was looked on by us to be the premier computer hardware manufacturer!? I thought the bar was set high!? We should be expecting nothing but fantastic things from Apple this year, especially since AMD and Intel and Microsoft are relentless in always pioneering new and great technology. Apple should have had a 64bit G5 out months ago.

    I could go on, but Ive got myself all worked up. I still think the Dual 1Gz should be the standard of all new Apple computers. And yes, its rediculous that they have upped the prices on the iMac. Fools.

    Cut your prices on the old hardware, make new hardware. Dont make new hardware, and up the old hardware's prices.
     
  17. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Destin Florida
    #17
    Agreenster, are you out of your friggin mind? 1200$ for a 23inch LCD display? They would loose over 1000$ each on those! If I remember correctly, the 22 inch was 3999 when it came out was it not? It has droped in price, but the new one is amazing! Not just in size, but quality. Everyone needs to just chill. How many of us were going to buy a new iMac yesterday, and put it off till today? Those are the only people that could have a Bitc*. It doesn't matter to me how much they cost, I will just have to save a little bit more money to get one.

    Oh, and the 23 inch Cinemas are for pros, not home users, plenty of them will buy this thing, and Apple will continue to make the profits that it has since Steve has come back.
     
  18. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #18
    Oh Well...

    The products are cool. The prices are high. The innovations are few. Such is life.

    We drive the market.

    If you think the prices are too high, stay away (like AL). If the market determines the prices are too high, the prices will fall (or Apple will go out of business). Of course Apple listens to consumers. Maybe they don't listen to us as much as we would like, but we aren't the ones buying the new cinema displays. We represent the part of the market that loves the cool stuff, but can't necessarily afford it. If the price is too high, it will fall--maybe not enough that we are all going to buy one, but it will fall enough that Apple will maximize net profits.

    The price hike on the iMac seems pretty crappy, though. I'm not sure I buy the explanation, either.

    The big complaint I disagree with, AL, is about Bluetooth. BLUETOOTH IS COOL! Sure, it's not made by Apple, but it's coming to Apple first. When is the last time a third party technology was implemented first on the Mac? It's been a while. And for those that have been wondering, sure you can sync with wires--and probably faster--just like you can set up a network with wires that's faster. But wireless can be more convenient and much cooler. Also, with the Bluetooth thingy plugged in, you can connect to any other Bluetooth device within range. While this doesn't sound like all that much right now, it will be when Bluetooth starts being implemented in phones, VCR's, coffeemakers, etc. You can control all that stuff from your computer. This fits perfectly with Apple's "digital hub" strategy. It makes sense that it will eventually be standard equipment in all computers (if the market likes it and adopts it), but I love that it came to the Mac first. I still love having my friends come over and being amazed at the speed of our wireless network. They're even more impressed when I tell them it has run perfectly for over two years. It's that sort of stuff that helps people realize that Apple still leads the way, and that M$ hasn't really "caught up" after all.

    Anyway, it's not all that bleak, AL. We drive the market. Apple will adapt or wither and (eventually) die. If they choose the latter, I will miss them. I don't think they're that stupid, though. Either way, the only influence we have is by buying when we believe the price is right. It's not personal. It's business. It's not your life. It's a machine (even if it is one I love).

    And if it wasn't clear from an earlier post, the speed of Bluetooth is about 700-750K.

    Chris
     
  19. agreenster thread starter macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #19
    Cinema Display

    It was, and still is my understanding that Apple was venturing more into the home market. I dont care if the Pro's buy the Cinema Display. How is that helping the typical comsumer? THATS where they are losing their money you freakin' retard. The Pro's always buy the new stuff, regardless of the cost. Its written off as a business expense. Thats understood. Where they are dropping the ball is in regards to the home comsumer. If they want to recapture more of the market, they have to cut their prices. Period.

    Plus, the original Cinema Display came out, like, 3 years ago. They are still charging 3000+ for technology that is 3 years old. I dont consider an extra inch and a higher resolution really remarkable "new" technology.
     
  20. agreenster thread starter macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #20
    Bluetooth

    Is cool.


    But Apple isnt driving the market in everything. Please remember that. Microsoft and Intel have done an amazing job in pushing the speed of the PC, and its accessibility. Its really unfair to say that Apple is driving the market, when really both (mac and PC) are kind of doing different things at different times, and both staying at about the same place. Its no longer Apple that is truly dominant, like the way it used to be.

    This is the point of my frustration.
     
  21. IndyGopher macrumors 6502a

    IndyGopher

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    #21
    Anyone who feels the need to sell off their Apples (or indeed, to write page-long missives about how betrayed they feel) is welcome to. You are pretty much free to feel any way you want.. and to say most anything.

    My first reaction when reading this thread was confusion over where these feelings were coming from.. I then moved on to being angry and frustrated by the obvious lack of any real understanding of how the world works... finally, by the time I got all the way through the second huge post by the Endeavouring Fruit, I realized it was satire!

    So I wanted to apologize, for thinking that some of you were actually clueless, snivelling morons with no real grasp on what is important in life... You are, instead, clearly masters of dry satire. I can now re-read this thread in the proper light, and give the posts the uproarious laughter they are entitled to.
     
  22. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #22
    Ha!

    That was some truly clever satire. I completely missed it.

    Matthew
     
  23. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Destin Florida
    #23
    Um, no punk, I am not a retard so let me clarify for you and say it really slow with me and maybe you will get it.

    1) The iMac and iBook are Apple's consumer line. That is it, and that is all. Will the Cinema's, or Studios connect to the iMac, nope. They could connect to an iBook, but that requires a 400$ dollar adapter.

    2) Do consumers have a need for a 23inch display, um, nope. 15 inch LCD's are more than perfect for 90% of home users. People that have a more impressive need, they can buy a G4 tower, and a 17 inch Cinema, or a 22 inch Cinema.

    3) "3000 for old tech", um, seems to me like uncle Steve lowered the price on the 22's to 2499. Find any LCD with good contrast ratio, and a 22inch screen for less. You can't!

    4) How do you figure that Apple is loosing money in the home sector? Every sale there is a positve thing. Apple is a pro company that is transitioning into a company that plays on all fields. Lets face it, the vast majority of people who buy PC's do so because they would never consider anything else! People are affraid of the unknown. Imagine a customer goes into an Apple store and sees this beautiful computer, with an amazing operating system, with unbelieveable applications, but because it is new and different, they leave and buy an e-machine for 500$. That is the problem, the brainwashed consumer, not Apples prices!

    5) Don't know how you felt that you should call me a friggin retard because I asked a simple question. Are you out of your mind? You do not address the sheer stupidiy of your idea to sell a product that costs over 2500 dollars to make for only 1200. That would really help Apple become a more powerful company with greater market share, a greater market share of out of work tech employees. Grow up.
     
  24. agreenster thread starter macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #24
    He he. I love pushing your buttons. 'Retard' must be a sensitive spot. Anything we should know?

    Yeah, yeah, I get your point--and I used to believe the same way you did. I used to be on your side of the arguement. And granted, I still prefer an Apple over a PC. But they are just so expensive, its exasperating.

    I cant hardly believe that the Cinema Display costs 2500 to manufacture. No way. I think you made that figure up. Plus, I dont think you can prove it. If you can, please do. And dont come back with a "I read it somewhere, but I cant remember where. If I find it, I'll let you know" Thats just dumb-ass talk for, "I made it up." So dont tell me to grow up you stupid liar. At least I'm not in dream land thinking the Cinema Display is worth 3.5 grand. Crimeny. For that, Id buy another computer or two.

    And yeah, I know all about the consumer vs professional models. I have both the TiBook and a G4 tower. But I have seen the iMac (the old one) and I have seen the iBooks. Jesus--what a crock. The iBook is the size of a calculator and the old iMac is so dumbed down, you can barely consider it workable. The top of the line macs (as I have already said) should be the bottom rung-standard. I opted for the TiBook and the G4 Tower because anything less would just be simply unnacceptable.

    And ya know what? Consumers DO need the 23 inch monitor. And you know why? Because they are buying from Apple, supposedly the best computer company in the world. They SHOULD have a monitor that blows the competition away--and they should be able to afford it. Why should they settle for less just because computers arent involved in their way of making a living? Damn. How selfish is THAT?

    And yes---you ask anyone why they dont want to switch to a Mac --money. Money money money. MONEY! The fact that they would have to relearn some functions of OSX are secondary. It always comes back to the cost points. And whats all this you are saying about the "great" applications for the Mac? Huh? Like what? iTunes? Big deal. iPhoto? Whoopy. Any piece of software worth noting is always made third party. OSX is nice, and the power of Unix is nice, but touting Apple as a great app maker is kinda silly.

    But most importantly, Im tired of arguing with you guys, because I know what Im up against. You all are closed-minded. You will stop at nothing to defend the Mac, even if it results in making up figures, or getting all upset about it. The bottom line is, Apple isnt the only company doing great things in the PC world, and its time for them to get off of their elite soap-box and get the products into our hands. I love Apple products--I do. They are great for the most part. They just need to be more accessible.
     
  25. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #25
    Re: Economics, Loyalty and Such

    Boy am I glad you aren't in charge of apple. They'd be out of business in a matter of months. If apple has found a price point to maximize their profits, good for them. They don't owe you anything. Theya re a business, a corporation who's only goal is to increase value for shareholders by making the most money possible. You mgiht want stuff cheap, you might want lots of people to be able to afford the hgiher end apple stuff, but how is what you want good business. its not. everyone would like lower prices, but it ain't gonna happen for a while until things like LCD's become much mroe fo a commodity than they already are.
     

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