Those of you who are single and childless can now stop discussing war and politics

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #1
    At least, Barbara Boxer seems to believe so.

    Now, what would have happened if the administration had made that comment?

    Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian. You would think that regardless of party there would be a level of decency that would not be crossed. I mean, aren't most recruits minority males? Does that mean that whites and women are not qualified to consider ramifications of war?

    You know, a few months ago, I was beginning to think that the Democrats might bring some needed oversight to the administration. But with things like this? Screw that.
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #2
    it was a dumb thing for boxer to say, but i don't think it's fair to punish all the dems in the senate and house for that.
     
  3. After G macrumors 68000

    After G

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Location:
    California
    #3
    I thought of that comment as being critical of the idea that "It's okay to have a war as long as you don't send my kid to Iraq."

    You don't see President Bush's daughters becoming medics in the front line. It's a statement decrying half-baked support for the war, not dismissing rational discussion of the consequences. If the high-profile supporters of the war put their own resources into it, and not have everyone else paying the cost, you wouldn't hear this kind of statement.

    It's one thing for Rice to visit the hospitals, it's another for her to see her own kid in a hospital. She doesn't have any to send to Iraq, so there's a dimension of the war she won't understand no matter how many families she visits.
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #4
    I was thinking about this and I do believe that someone with Kids has a different look at things then someone who doesnt have children. I know my thoughts have changed after becoming a parent and look at things different now.

    Though I havent read all her comments it seems to me putting our troops in the middle of this civil war and all the factions who are fighting in Iraq isnt much different then using them as targets for the bad guys. How does a U.S. trooper tell the difference between a good Iraqi? and a bad Iraqi?

    Vietnam or Iraq whats the difference? we tried to save both countries by bombing the hell out of them. It doesnt work like that, someone please tell George. If only George & his Dick Cheney had served they may have learned the lessons of Nam.

    If George had to put his two daughters on the front lines he would have thought harder on Iraq. Boxer has a point.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #5
    Nowhere that I can see did anyone suggest that.
     
  6. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #6
    Aside from Boxer rudely interrupting Rice, I don't see a problem here.
     
  7. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #7
    I think that Boxer makes a very good point. The problem with the leadership of this 'War on Terror' is that no one in the Bush or Blair hierarchy has served in the military. Their war is what Hollywood and Fox News has shown it to be.

    Don't forget that George W. Bush's Vietnam War was spent defending the Texas sky.
     
  8. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    #8
    for Rice, i can be as mean as i can, she just like a puppy, other than defending prez, she didn't do anything. after 4 years of frustration, 4 years of lying with diplomatic words, 4 years of respectful disrespect, everybody get frustrated, listen to those bs for 4 years, what do you expect?
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #9
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Or in this case, nbs2. Are you going to boycott California now because one person from there said something that made you mad?

    Please. If you're going to get all huffy about decorum on the Senate floor, whining about lines that shouldn't be crossed, well you can just go **** yourself. Right?

    Besides, if you actually take Boxers comments in context, instead of buying the Limbaugh spin, you'll see that by your logic Boxer herself shouldn't be criticizing the war. She did say she's not going to pay a price too you know. Or did you miss that in your righteous righty zeal?
     
  10. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #10
    i think our family photo-albums with the typical "didn't came back from war" photos from ww1&2 are enough to make up for me being single and childless

    heck even the lifes of those who survived makes someone's opinion quite different about current events .. i guess i would think different if my grandfather wouldn't have been a POW in an american camp or if the brother from my grandmother literally got home on the last train from russia in 1955 13 years after he got drafted

    my other grandfather made it back from Vietnam early enough before it went downhill, he was in the french foreign legion
    any other fellow macrumor members who had legionaries in their family ? or prisoners of war ?
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #11
    no, but my grandfather survived being surrounded by germans in bastogne.
     
  12. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #12
    My point was that if you believe that a person cannot appreciate or intelligently manage foreign policy (remember, she is the SecState, not SecDef) because they do not have children who will bear the consequences or a spouse why may outlive them, that is clearly absurd. In arguing that being a single non-parent, she is ill-qualified to address the war issue, suggests to me that you need to have an intimate association with the military. Since whites could never fully appreciate the needs/concerns of minorities and women could never fully appreciate the concerns of men, they are also ill-qualified to address the needs of today's military.

    As for the concern that people's children are not serving in the military, when did parental control extend to children who are adults? To say that any administration of any party is taking action what they wouldn't take if their children were in the military is far too speculative. My parents didn't hold a gun to my head when I enrolled in an ROTC program. My parents didn't whip me when I was medically discharged with my bum knee. Adults make decisions for themselves.

    zimv20 - As for my comment regarding Democratic oversight, I think you misunderstood my concern. I'm not blaming the entire party forevermore. It's just a really bad first impression - Iraq oversight is gearing up, and confrontation between the branches isn't going to solve anything. It's not going to solve anything and make progression even more confrontational. It's too bad so many people, on both sides of the aisle (I'm sure this even includes me at times), are more concerned with defending what you would have otherwise vilified rather than just acknowledging stupidity.
     
  13. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #13

    My fathers uncle (apparently I 'take after him' because I'm the first in the family since him to be over 6' tall) was captured at Dunkirk. He was eventually released and when he got back home he died a few years later of a massive heart attack. He was in a bus on his way into town. I never met him.

    Also, my mothers grandfather was a Nazi during the same war. Her father disowned him and left the country before marrying my nan. I never met him, either.

    Maybe, my 'family' were shooting at each other during WWII?
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #14
    congratulation on being here then

    next time i'm at home i'll go and check how many times my existence had luck before 1930 ;)
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #15
    actually, my dad had already been born. but i'm glad my grandpa made it back, at least i got to know him for a few years before he died.

    i've been doing family research and discovered that, while in bastogne, he wasn't that far from where his mother was born, near saarbrucken. i wonder if he knew.

    and just a couple months ago, i acquired two photos of my grandfather posing in the uniform of a captured SS officer -- kind of weird to see.
     
  16. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #16
    mine married after the war, he wasn't that old after all in 1945 ... 19/20 afaik
    and in his he was even more lucky because he survived a grenade injury where he was wounded at the neck and back of the head (some splinters couldn't be removed from the neck which followed him his whole life)

    such stuff are always the most weird things ever .. like when we found a former uniform belt buckle with the swastika on the bottom of the eagle which have gotten removed with a file, in the attic of our house in one of the lockers filled with all different kinds rubbish normally located in attics
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #17
    You are entirely misrepresenting what she said.
    She is saying that those who go to war on false pretences for the sake of political gain would be less gung-ho about it if going to war meant sending their own children into harm's way. Your Administration has been more reckless with others' lives than they would dream of being with their own. To read it as anything else betrays a partisan agenda on your part which does nothing to elucidate the issue, answer the charge or provide a solution. You will no doubt be a consummate party politician.
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #18
    then congratulations on you being here!

    neat!
     
  19. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #19
    I don't see how you equate "immediate family" with being chlldless. To me that would include nephews, nieces and cousins or relative by marriage.

    What Boxer's statements make clear to me is that bushco has spent too much time and effort dehumanizing this war. No flag draped coffins, no presidential presence at funerals, no public apologies to the families who've lost children, husbands, wives, etc.

    War is first and foremost about the people on the front lines and when they lose their lives. It's time that this illegal and immoral war end and the only way that's going to happen is if those who have lost family stand up and say enough is enough.

    Once again, you're only interested in inflammatory statements and only too willing to ignore the substance behind the speech. Rice looks, talks and acts like an automaton, it's nice to see Boxer stand up and force her to defend the fact that she along with all the other neocons are directly responsible for thousands upons thousands of dead human beings. It's not surprising that Rice reacted like the cold fish she is.
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #20
    My grandmother passed away last year and I've been compiling a family history. Her cousin's stepson was an officer in the Wehrmacht. Mimi had sent a photo of him and his 4 year old daughter to my grandmother in 1942. He was wearing full dress uniform. Sort of weird that it had survived all these years. He was killed in 1944 so maybe that's why she kept it.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #21
    From reading the article that is clearly what she is saying.
     
  22. After G macrumors 68000

    After G

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Location:
    California
    #22
    Just wondering how nbs2 could take it the way he/she is.

    I too want to see the war's end but I know it won't happen with Bush around and I am afraid of what will happen if we don't plan it properly.
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #23
    along w/ the photos, my grandmother gave me his dress uniform, campaign ribbons, notebooks, and some other stuff.

    reserved for my dad or uncle is the SS sword confiscated from the SS officer.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #24
    Me, I'm just wondering whether nbs2 is going to attempt to defend his point.
     
  25. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #25
    Nah, he's just another cut and runner. (oops, I almost added an "n" to one of those words!)
     

Share This Page