Through Hussein's Looking Glass

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #1
    Excerpts from a lengthy and remarkable story.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-saddam12oct12,1,1983638.story
     
  2. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #2
    There is entirely to much to reply to...

    Still, in brief:

    - Saddam was a smart man in a difficult environment (or because of one). A ME with competing power-centers, a secular Iraq in the middle of Arab Islam and running (or being part of ) successive tolitarian regimes for 40 years attests to that.

    - This intelligence (of one kind) was highlighted against the failure of intelligence (of another kind) by the US in the run-up to the first Gulf War. The monumentally bad policy ( of coddling Saddam) coming from the State Dept. and transmitted by Ms Glaspie, the Ambassador to Iraq at the time, directly contributed to the first Gulf War more than any other factor (imo). Glaspie, while a fine diplomat, was not the kind of one needed in Iraq at that time and her being a woman was not helpful either. Nevertheless, the main fault lie with the policy of the Baker State Dept. and gave the impression to Saddam that he could act with impunity, that the US was his allie, or at least willing to look the other way. Dealing with many of the same people in US Foreign policy circles throughout the 80's on friendly terms, that was probably a reasonable assumption.

    - In any case, regardless of motives, the US dropped the ball with Iraq in 89-90 and we went to war. I do not think many people have forgiven Saddam for making them out to look so bad, which seems relevant considering many of the more conservative/hawkish foreign policy wonks are still operating today, some directly with the new Bush Administration.

    - So you have partly a revenge thing, partly a refusal to be hoodwinked or taken advantage of again at all costs. The irony was, of course, that by the US being so eager not to be made a fool of, to have good policy and good intelligence, they ignored the plain reality and ended up being embarrassed again. Or they just didn't care and it was all about an axe to grind...

    It's all so imbred...so many of the same people...two Iraq wars, two Bush's, it almost seems as if Saddam was irrelevant, as if this has all been some internal politikin', attempts to save face, arrogance and pride.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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  4. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #4
    If it wasn't for the oil, I'm still wondering why we invaded Iraq. We had plenty of evidence and people saying there were no WMDs. Links to Al Qaida were tenuous, at best. While Bin Laden, who is Al Qaida, is practically ignored. So no wonder Saddam, who is a bad guy but wasn't responsible for anything recent against us or any of our allies, was a little confused by our invasion.
     
  5. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    His world-view was warped because he surrounded himself with sycophants who only told him what he wanted to hear.

    Pop quiz: To which world leader does the above statement refer?
     
  6. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #6
    Ooh! OOh!


    Uhhh.....

    George Washington Bush!!!!


    No... Uh...

    Boris Yeltsin!!!

    Erm...


    OOh! Gotta be Ariel Sharon!!

    Dammit... It applies to all three.... :confused: ;) :D :rolleyes:
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    I'd say it applied to just about every leader who ever lived.
     
  8. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #8
    Nah... The truly scary time periods under feudalism were good for that one. You could tell who the good leaders were because their sycophants had short careers that often ended in assignments like food tasting or scouting the enemy. :D

    Not that I'm advocating a political anachronism.... it was all just a bit easier when you could have someone executed for being too goddamn friendly.
     
  9. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #9
    To a greater or lesser degree. I was just struck by the similarity of the quality of the thinking going on in the White House and in Saddam's bunker.
     
  10. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #10
    In the geo-political world perception is everything. You don't have to have 1,000 nukes; just say that you do. What is sad that we did not see the truth even with billion of dollars worth of spy gear.
     
  11. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #11
    Intelligence is a misnomer. Perhaps it'd be more effective if we called it contextual recognizance?
     

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