Time Magazine Article Proves People Are Stupid

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by thedude110, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #1
    Found this poll in the 4.17 issue of Time ... don't have the copy with me, or I'd scan it in so you could see the full glory of its glossy color.

    In an article about the problem of high school dropouts, Americans parents with kids in school were asked the following questions:

    Do I contradict myself? I contain multitudes!
     
  2. elfin buddy macrumors 6502a

    elfin buddy

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  3. debroglie macrumors 6502a

    debroglie

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    #3
    Hmmm???

    Are you referring to how the percentages don't add up to 100%? That's the way it always is with studies... it accounts for sampling error.

    What else could you be referring to?
     
  4. AvSRoCkCO1067 macrumors 65816

    AvSRoCkCO1067

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    #4
    Maybe he is trying to prove that he is stupid...???
     
  5. emaja macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Do you mean that if they don't have a driver's license they can't get to work if denied due to not having graduated high school?

    No problem, there is a bus stop in front of every McDonalds.
     
  6. iSaint macrumors 603

    iSaint

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    #6
    Most people think dropouts under the age of 18 should be able to work, but not have a drivers license.

    How are they going to get to work?

    Part of growing up and learning responsibility is to have to pay for cars, insurance, etc. Even if you don't graduate high school.
     
  7. elfin buddy macrumors 6502a

    elfin buddy

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    #7
    Okay, I guess I understand what the OP was trying to say. The problem I had with it was that I know there are more ways of getting around than having a car. I really don't see any sort of firm rule that says someone absolutely needs a car to get to work.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my little forays into the USA, it seems that it's pretty much the norm for teenagers to have their own cars. Of the dozen or so close American friends I have (all my age), about 10 of them already have their own cars. Yet, of all my hundreds of Canadian friends of my age, there's only about 10 overall who have their own cars. It seems to me that there could be a large discrepancy in paradigm between the US and other places, based around how useful and necessary a car really is. As far as I'm concerned, they aren't necessary in the least. There is almost always some sort of public transportation available, or at least car pooling. Not a big deal ;)
     
  8. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #8

    so some people thinks you need a diploma to get a work permit or to drive, some people thinks you don't need it to do either, and some that you need it to drive but not to work. roughly in equal amounts.

    and your point is?
     
  9. thedude110 thread starter macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #9
    Only that the average American seems to want to allow its dropouts to work, but not allow those same dropouts to get to work. The poll reveals that, at the very least, Americans want to strictly limit how far a "dropout" can travel to work (a paved ceiling, or an invisible wall, if you will).

    I thought it was funny, but also revealing of a larger bias: "dropouts" can work, but they better not pursue work far from home. Worse, "dropouts" can work, but, even if they contribut significantly to their society or community, they can't have the same rights as "normal" kids.

    We contradict ourselves, but in so doing, we also reveal what rights we're willing to grant to specific members of our (socio-cultural) community.
     
  10. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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  11. calebjohnston macrumors 68000

    calebjohnston

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    #11
    Might as well just execute drop-outs. They're not going anywhere anyway, right?


    Social Darwinism.
     
  12. emaja macrumors 68000

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    #12
    In the US, you have a right to an education which is often a wasted opportunity.

    There is no right to have a driver's licence.
     
  13. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #13
    Just like good ol John Henry, College drop out. Not going anywhere right?

    Nope, Only Majority Owner of the Boston Redsox......

    Unless of course you were being sarcastic without your emoticons there :p
     
  14. Kingsly macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #14
    I don't need a time magazine article to prove to me that people are stupid. Thats a given. ;)
     
  15. maxterpiece macrumors 6502a

    maxterpiece

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    #15
    yeah your concept of social darwinism is bourgeouis 19th century. "The world should work so that I have opportunities and others don't. If the others die off, it's because the world works that way." No, the world we live in today is just as constructed as any alternative. Most nerds on this board probably wouldn't do too well in a world without a modern government to protect them.

    No, a society that is interested in the promotion of social darwinism strives to give everyone EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, so that the strongest, instead of the ones handed power, will survive.

    And to everyone saying, "they can walk," or, "driver's licenses are privileges, not rights." I don't get what your point is. Are you saying that you are better than someone who chooses not to finish high school? Are yo usaying that you deserve a driver's license because you have a diploma? If that's what you're saying then please explain why you think this.

    Although to me the most alarming aspect to this thread has been the responses of our members, those stats are scary. I find the fact that a full 1/3 or those surveyed said that dropouts shouldn't be allowed work permits. Why??? I just don't get it. Why shouldn't people be allowed to work?

    I really want to go on, but I'll hold off.
     
  16. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #16
    If they choose to drop out of school, why should they aspire to driving...or anything else?

    People in the U.S.A. seem to think that driving (and owning a car) is a necessity and a licence should be easy to obtain. Good public transportation should be the necessity and getting a licence should require frequent, repeated training.
     
  17. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #17
    I didn't drop out of high school (MA), don't own a car, and am capable of getting to work.
     
  18. madoka macrumors 6502

    madoka

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    #18
    Only stupid thing proven here is the OP's thread title.
     
  19. maxterpiece macrumors 6502a

    maxterpiece

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    #19
    Okay first off, public transportation in 99% of the USA is horrendous. NYC is the only city I've been to where it's not a total pain in the ass to get places without a car if it's nighttime. During the day there are a few more cities to add to the list of decent public trans, but once you leave urban areas though, we are talking what would be a 15 minute drive becomes a 1 1/2 hour multi-bus ride.

    People who are under 18 are considered minors. That is basically a technical term for children. The 18 y/o line may be somewhat arbitrary, but the reason why we classify ppl as minors and adults is because we know that people have to grow up before we can rightly expect them to be able to properly evaluate the world around them and make good decisions.

    So, when a 16 year old decides to drop out of high school it is usually because s/he doesn't and hasn't had the proper support at home and in school. They live in a bad environment. They are confused. They don't have their priorities straight. Whatever the reason may be. Dumb? Naíve? Irresponsible? No eye to their future? Yes, exactly, because they are misguided children

    Now you - all of you posters - have two choices: Choice #1) take away opportunities from these kids so that they leave school and their only choice is to go do something illegal (this is a result of the 1/3 of ppl who voted that the kids shouldn't be allowed to work). Working builds character. It gives people a sense that they fit into the world and it gives people perspective.

    Now for the no DL thing - what reason do you have to take away a DL from a non HS graduate? What if the kid is a nice white farm boy who leaves high school to work for his family on the farm? Do you want to stop him from driving the family's 1967 pickup truck to go bring pie over to Aunt Jackie's? What about some kid who learns to predict the stock makes a nice bundle of cash for himself before he's 16. He decides he doesn't need HS anymore. You won't let him drive?

    No, what you are probably thinking is that you want to punish the thugs who yo usee on the streets who think that they are so tough. You want to make them realize that they aren't so tough and that the world doesn't work the way they want. But what you never stop to think about is why they act that way. It is precisely your lack of understanding - the fact that you don't want to reach out - that perpetuates a feeling of alienation among the type of person who drops out of high school. What does taking away something that others are allowed from them do? It reinforces the idea that they have (although it is not precisely true), that the world doesn't have a place for them and doesn't want them to succeed.

    now you have option #2) Let these kids go out and at least allow the meager opportunities that high school drop outs have. They are already screwed over enough. They are only 17 and they are already very highly likely to end up in jail. Give them help finding a low paying job. Give them information on how they can go back to high school or go for a GED. Now if they are able to grow up and see things more clearly, they ahve the chance to turn their lives around and become contributing members of our nation. At least you ahve to respect the financial side of it - it costs taxpayers a lot of money to just throw these kids in jail.
     
  20. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #20
    As someone already stated, driving isn't a right; it's a privilege to be earned and that can also be taken away if abused. In the more major cities, though, I would surmise that ready access to mass transit makes this a moot point. For those of us who live in areas where cars are a necessity, one would think that denying driving licenses to dropouts would be pretty good motivation to see it through and get their diplomas.
     
  21. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #21
    Correct. They are children and so need to be told what to do until they demonstrate they can think act appropriately for themselves.

    Or we could teach children that everything they will ever do will have consequences and that they should weigh them accordingly. In this context, dropping out of school = no license. Your example of "if you dont let me drive/work, I'll rob a bank" is analagous to a 4 year old threatening to hold their breath until he gets his way/cookie/whatever.

    Farmer Brown Jr. can always get a GED in his spare time. The stock market wonder boy is, as you pointed out earlier, a child, and also as you iterated, incapable of making such a large decision for on his own.

    Again, if you want something, you have to work for it. The sooner people realize there is no free lunch the better. It's an abstract that most people shrug off until it hits close to home.

    It's a sad situation to be sure, but laying it at society's doorstep won't help. Every one of those kids made the misguided choice not to get up and go to class, and they don't have anyone to blame but themselves for it.
     
  22. livingfortoday macrumors 68030

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    #22
    Both questions are stupid. For 1) A drivers license is earned by showing that you have the proficiency to drive. That's the criterion on which you're judged - it has nothing to do with your education. To base it on that is just stupid. For 2) What? Are people serious? Not allowing people to work just because they dropped out of high school? That's the worst idea I've ever heard of.

    And yeah, I'm not a dropout either, and don't have a car, but somehow manage to get around... is it a) by magic or b) by bike and public transit? You tell me!
     
  23. maxterpiece macrumors 6502a

    maxterpiece

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    #23
    Telling them what to do would be making them complete high school - by law.
    This is an interesting analogy, but i don't think it's applicable. These kids aren't asking anything or threatening anything against society. I am just explaining a cause and effect. Believe me, the consequences of dropping out of high school are already dire enough that telling a drop out he can't drive for another year is probably water under the bridge as far as scaring someone away. I don't htink kids choose to drop out of school to pursue other opportunities. I think they drop out out of despair. This is a very big difference because someone who is in despair is not gonna care about the consequences of his or her actions. Think about it. What could have possible driven you to drop out of high school?
    YOu didn't say whether you would allow him to drive. The point of my examples were to provide situations where kids made the "right" choice in dropping out, or at least had a decent excuse. Do these kids deserve to be disciplined? If they don't, then what right does anyone have to decide what is a decent reason to drop out and what isn't?
    This is not a question of "free lunch". It is a question of taking away a privilege from kids who drop out - a privilege that would be granted to other kids their age. You are taking away what currently is permitted.
    People who are ****ed up are gonna be on society's doorstep no matter what. You ahve two choices, as i said before: try your darndest to be supportive of people so that they can contribute to society, or leave them to the wolves once htey make a poor decision.

    Now i'll reuse your cookie analogy in a way that i believe it works - let's say your kid throws a fit and threatens you to hold his breath, etc, and you won't hear anything of it. The kid continues to whine like mad and won't give up on it. You then have two choices: You can sit and talk to the kid about how he feels about the cookie - teach him to express his feelings. This may not be exactly what the kid has earned from you, but it will help the kid mature, and he will learn what he has done wrong. He will also realize, through your patience and energy, that you do care about him, which is probably a big part of why the child chose to be destructive/bratty to begin with.

    It is the same situation with a dropout. You can leave him to cry in the corner (and eventually turn away from you), or you can try to support him and talk him through his feelings, and most importantly, show that you care about him and want him to succeed. Tossing the kid to the wolves doesn't accomplish anything. No matter how much he "deserves it".
     
  24. redAPPLE macrumors 68030

    redAPPLE

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    #24
    is this even worth discussing? i would be extremely surprised, if this gets turned into a law.

    edit: no. i won't be surprised.
     
  25. thedude110 thread starter macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #25
    For many kids, dropping out of school is a necessity. These kids have every reason to aspire to drive -- and do lots of other things.
     

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