TIME OUT *Blows Whistle*

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Neserk, Jul 13, 2004.

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  1. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #1
    I feel like I'm in Kindergarten when I'm on these forums! What the HECK is going on around here? Why the hell did Voltron/Flex get banned? Why are people free to verbally abuse him w/o consequence? Why are we not acting like adults?

    I agree with almost nothing he says but I strongly believe in his right to say what he does. I've been in his shoes of being the dissenter both here (on non-political issues, marijuana, *ahem*) and other forums (political issues) and have seen the "logic" used to support the dominate side. I can't really blame him for occasonally acting out. It isn't an easy position to be in.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  3. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #3

    :D
     
  4. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    #4
    Basically his comment:

    Voltron's comment - "You are an ass" - is a direct personal insult. That's an instantly bannable offense. I think that's why he got banned. If Voltron had continued with his posts in a calming manner, right or wrong, I doubt he would have gotten banned. Also, "Flex" is banned, because it's against forum policy to register under a second nickname, especially if your first one is banned. So Voltron, in a sense, was given a break, because "Flex" (which I haven't seen online yet) is his 3rd username.
     
  5. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #5
    NO offense to Pooky, but why wasn't he banned too? And why wasn't the person who attacked me 7 times banned?
     
  6. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #6
    I have to agree w/Neserk here. VolFlexTer biggest "problem" was that he he disagreed w/most of the people that frequent this forum and he stuck to his guns. He took shots because of it and he returned some shots.
    I didn't agree w/a lot of what he said but his attitude wasn't different than many of the posters here. Just his opinion was different. If he honestly deserved to get banned then he isn't the only one.


    Lethal
     
  7. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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  8. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #8
    Banning is incredibly subjective...and this situation is all too similar to Counter-strike servers. A member of the clan is allowed to mouth off racist comments, accuse players of "hacking", use profanity, among other things while the "new guy on the block" is banned without a second thought when he says "F".

    This is why I apply the gum rule to this. If one person is banned for an offense, then ALL offenders should be banned.

    Hell, Mac vs. PC arguments constantly have flames going on--but that is understandable. What would be shocking is to have one person banned for flaming, while the other is not. I'm not going to say that I haven't flamed someone before, but likewise, my flaming has never been unprovoked. If I get banned, so should the other guy (who provoked it in the first place). And vice-versa.

    However, if we ban everyone who does...I believe we would have a very empty forum.

    We are human, we makes mistakes. This is why I personally never believe in a zero-tolerance ban vs. a warning system at least. There is one thing to flame unprovoked, but in a political discussion, I doubt that any flames were unprovoked.

    There is simply too much grey area in this matter, and with political discussions, tempers flare and basic civility goes out the window very quickly. Watch the Taiwanese/Chinese news, especially when they do politics. I have seen far too many news reports @ 7, where a politician starts arguing with another which ends up being a fistfight that possibly escalates into a 3-6 person brawl...
     
  9. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #9
    Was it me that attacked you ?
     
  10. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #10
    nope. At least not that remember! ;)
     
  11. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #11
    Seems like a fine line.

    One from what little I was following that thread at the time (quantum physics is not my thing), a number of people were getting testy with each other.

    If a debate gets heated and I am called a crack smoking liberal, is that sarcasm? Or is it a personal insult? It is in my nature to count it as sarcasm, and friendly like set them straight. More like I am a flaming liberal :D

    Nerserk will probably agree. It takes two (or more) to fight. And when words are involved, it is better to ignore some that will lead to a downward path of no return.

    I have learned that there are some posters that I will never agree with, or even be able to have a civil debate. So I ignore them (for the most part). Sometimes it is like a moth to a flame.
     
  12. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #12
    You and I did cross paths once on my choice of words. After you called me on, I thought better of it. I apologized, and edited the comment from the offending post. It was my attempt at humor, and it fell flatter than a soufflé at a artillery range (now see there, I insulted cooks and the military :D ).

    The point being is that we are a community. If someone says something that upsets us personally, say something. Either in the thread, or in a private email.

    I think the world would be better off with a few more Type B's personally.
     
  13. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #13
    Again, agreeing w/Neserk here (wow, 2x in one day ;)). Just seeing the exchange that KC posted Pooky's post was inflamitory<sp?>, condesending, and blatantly provacotive.

    If someone says something that irriates you so much that you are unable to create a constructive post then just ignore the person or what they said.

    Did Pooky commit the "cardinal sin" of a direct personal insult? No. But he did spend a entire paragraph lighting HunterFlexTron up. Personally, I find SlyHuntFlex's "you're an ass" comment severely less flamming than Pooky's tirade.

    I think people, in general, need to take a deep breath and count to 10 before they post sometimes. The Golden Rule people the Golden Rule. There is no need for the snide comments, left-handed compliments, and cloaked insults that seem to have become "par for the course" for this section of MR.


    Lethal
     
  14. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    #14
    It's still a personal insult. Anything that goes under "You are [derogatory remark]" and isn't an obvious attempt to create comic relief is a flat out personal insult. In this forum, sarcasm is considered trolling. Either way, that person stands a chance to get banned. The moderators at MacRumors won't always be able to tell if such a comment is meant in a comic relief, so if the comment stands any chance of being regarded as a personal insult, it's best to not say the comment altogether.
     
  15. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #15
    Was that the finkicky woman comment? LOL...


    Yep!
     
  16. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #16
    So

    from a mainline thread is out of bounds then too?
     
  17. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #17
    Depends on who posted it ;)
     
  18. CandelLife macrumors newbie

    CandelLife

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    #18
    You may not feel I am objective about this, but I can tell you that Sly/Flex/Voltron/whatever he's using now and I have disagreed about just about everything under the sun. He will argue his point till the end of time, but I have seen him see my side from time to time, albeit it next to never... :rolleyes: Point being: Everyone has a right to their opinion, and if we all agreed, no one would have a different view....that'd be a might boring I'd say. (Other than someone pointing out your question marks being appropriate or not) :cool:

    It seems many here have broken the rules countless times....why does it seem the head is turned the otherway....because you usually agree with these people?

    I think it's wrong...and I admin in two other forums that he frequents, as well as another that we both go to, and have for four years now....he makes things interesting. We don't agree 99.9% of the time, but that's ok. The good thing is, to get someone like that to understand your side after you thought he never would is an amazing thing. It is possible. Haven't any of you been able to do this?

    Amazing.
     
  19. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #19
    FWIW, I already discussed this via PM with Rower, as Slyflextron PM me the other night complaining of this very issue (getting a PM from him was a little strange...) and I forwarded it to Rower, along with my comments...

    I find his banning as Voltron a little unfair, but he had already been banned once, and rules are rules...so I support the decision(s) of the moderator(s) because of this.

    I think this little incident should be a reminder to us all, that we should not gang up on someone who has different (an at times exasperating) viewpoints, or who is presenting his opinion even if not knowledgeable about the subject.

    I have been guilty of this, as some of the rest of us...whether it was deserved (a la he was trolling) is somewhat irrelevant...I am sure that Voltron felt justified in his response to pooky...we all get a little hot-headed at times.

    As the new rules suggest, I would advocate in the future of trying to deal with disagreements such as above, in-thread between us, before notifying a moderator...therefore potentially defusing a situation or misunderstanding before bothering the mods, who must apply the letter of the law.

    OK...?
     
  20. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    #20
    Well, let's disect what pooky said to see if that's so. I'll try to play it right down the middle - no political pun intended.


    --> (pooky) Do you even believe half the stuff you post?

    That does seem mostly like an insult, but I don't think it's an instantly bannable offense. The question that is posted can be interpreted to one as an honest question, or, to Voltron, it could have been a wake up call of some sort. Though that wasn't a respectful way to state the question, granted.

    Still, it is not as direct or as obvious as Voltron's "You are an ass," because that is a "hands down" direct personal insult.

    --> Because sometimes it seems that you post indefensible opinions simply to aggravate others

    "sometimes it seems" implies that pooky is making an observation based on opinion. His opinion is that "you [Voltron] post indefensible opinions simply to aggravate others." That isn't a direct personal insult, because it is a statement that can be backed up (potentially in other situations) with facts without referring to derogatory insults. Though one might see that as a direct personal insult since pooky never backs that up in his post, so he says that for the sake of making a claim without supporting it.

    --> It doesn't earn you much respect here

    That's not a personal insult, since it can be backed up with facts and statistics. Also, pooky explained the "It" already (albeit, in one line).

    --> and people are less likely to take you seriously

    --> on the odd occasion you do say something intelligent.

    That is very well a direct personal insult. Pooky's comment suggests that the other person, Voltron, is not intelligent most of the time; hence, pooky claims that the moments in which Voltron says something intelligent are worth to mention as an occasion, specificaly, an "odd occasion."

    --> I know you're not stupid

    Even though pooky says that, his previous statement is still a direct insult.

    --> so why not contribute when you actually have some knowledge and experience to contribute, rather than spouting off on stuff you obviously know nothing about?

    That's pretty much an insult, since pooky used the words "know nothing about" to determine via his opinion Voltron's accuracy on a topic. But some might take that as not an insult, since pooky doesn't mention that everything Voltron says represents how obvious it is that he knows nothing about.

    --> Or are you so arrogant as to assume you know it all

    This is a borderline call, since arrogance doesn't necessarily determine one's ability to want to assume that he/she knows everything about a topic.

    --> even more so than the numerous professionals who have attempted to politely correct your misconceptions?

    Not an insult.


    --
    In conclusion, pooky's flamebit wasn't as clearly a personal insult to Voltron as Voltron's "You are an ass" to pooky was, but readers might determine that both are personal insults.
     
  21. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    #21
    Doesn't seem like it.
     
  22. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #22
    I read Pooky's comments more or less the way you did, King. I don't know him so I can't say what his motivations were. I do know if someone posted something like that to me, I'd be pissed off too. I'd also believe that at least I was being direct and not beating around the bush in my insults ;)
     
  23. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #23
    The thing is that you can't look at just one post. What is done is done, but my fleeting look at the "physics war" postings; there were lots being said up till the last two posts in question.
     
  24. Neserk thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #24
    Voltron was attacked repeatedly, as I recall.

    It was mostly over my head, although I did try to inject some humor into it. Some people just take themselves way too seriously! :D
     
  25. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #25
    Cross posting from Republicans Hate Science from me

     
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