Tiny7 & Boot Camp

Discussion in 'Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac' started by dehory, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008
    With Windows 7 hitting the stores this week, now seems like a good time to start a sequel to the venerable and very helpful TinyXP & Boot Camp thread. Has anyone tried out Tiny7 yet?

    As a quick introduction in case anyone's not familiar with it, TinyXP/TinyVista/Tiny7 are customised versions of Windows that have been pared down to their core essentials. (In my experience with the most recent version of TinyXP, it's actually more stable than the official MS version.) Favoured by gaming enthusiasts for their no-frills and highly-tweaked emphasis on speed, they are small enough to fit on CD-R, require a minimum of system resources, and are pre-activated/unattended installations.

    Since it's only Rev01, Tiny7 still has a few more revisions to go before everything is ironed out, and personally I haven't plucked up enough courage to install it yet. Nonetheless, any experiences that early adopters might have had with Boot Camp installs of Tiny7 would be very interesting to hear.

    Just one initial thought to get the ball rolling...

    From what I can gather on retestrak.nl where all the tinkering for TinyXP/Vista/7 happens, there is actually some debate over the necessity of a stripped down version of 7. To quote their publisher, "Disabling services on Windows 7 does not speed it up, it has the OPPOSITE effect from my experience!"

    The main benefit of Tiny7, then, is a reduced footprint: a 2.5 GB vs 7.74 GB (full x86/32-bit) install. For us Mac/Boot Camp users, this is no small thing. Since OS X is our primary OS, we really want as much flexibility as possible with the Windows partition.

    In my case, over the course of periodic OS X reinstalls since switching full time to Macs a year ago, my TinyXP partition has gradually shrunk from 20 GB to 5 GB as I've realised how infrequently I need to use Windows. Thus, I'm curious about Windows 7, but not quite curious enough to sacrifice the necessary space on my 128 GB MBA drive.

    Oh, incidentally, if anyone is confused like I was, the most recently released (build date: 31 August) version of Tiny7 is labelled "Windows Tiny7 Rev01" and is based on Windows 7 Ultimate x86 build 6.1.7600.16399. The first version (build date: 3 August) was based on Windows 7 Ultimate x86 build 6.1.7600.16385 RTM.

    EDIT: Tiny7 rev01 WORKS on SL/Boot Camp 3! See below for details.
  2. macrumors 6502


    Dec 7, 2008
    Wait... there is already an utility to rip stuff out of Win 7?

    Anyway, I would be interested in Tiny Win7. I never got TinyXP to work properly with my gaming and programming needs sadly, though. :(
  3. macrumors G4


    Jun 6, 2003
    Solon, OH
    I'm interested in trying Tiny7 too, once it becomes stable. I don't need Windows much at all (mostly for .NET programming, and testing my programs in other languages), but I'd love to shrink my Windows 7 Boot Camp partition. I think I overdid it a bit (I have a 1 TB internal HDD, and the Boot Camp partition takes up 400 GB). :eek:
  4. thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008
    Yes, I think they're using vLite.

    Unfortunately, currently I don't think .NET 3.5 is, or can be, installed on Tiny7.
  5. thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008

    OK, so I took the plunge and I am happy (and surprised) to report that installing Tiny7 rev01 is actually EASIER than installing TinyXP rev09 was.

    Partly, this is because of the much, much clearer installation process in Windows 7 itself, and partly it's because there aren't any extra installation options yet in Tiny7. There's also no tricky repartitioning required (or whatever it was that you had to do for TinyXP) to get the install going.

    Here was what I did. Since the process was so easy, it's all pretty obvious.

    1) Open Boot Camp and create a partition. (N.B. I started with a clean 10.6 install.)
    2) Follow instructions to restart computer after inserting Tiny7 CD.
    3) Once it's booted into the Windows 7 installation process, select the drive that's labelled "BOOTCAMP". It will tell you that you can't install on a non-NTFS drive, so click "format" and it'll automatically format it to NTFS. Then start the installation.
    4) Keep an eye on the computer when it restarts, as you'll need to hold down option as it's starting up to get it to reboot into Windows. (Select the Windows HD icon and not the Windows CD icon in the boot menu.)
    5) After all the Tiny7 trickery has completed in this first boot of Windows, it'll reboot. Again, hold down option to boot into Windows. You'll see a rather ugly eXPerience desktop background.
    6) Insert the OS X install disc. (Again, I can only vouch for SL/Boot Camp 3.) For some reason, the Autorun menu only gives you options to set up DVD/CD Sharing, so you'll need to click File/Open to open the disc.
    7) Open the Boot Camp folder and open setup.exe. Follow the prompts.
    8) You'll need to reboot into Windows once more... You're done!

    The only thing I would say is that the boot time seems rather slow, but once you're in Windows, everything is smooth.
  6. macrumors newbie

    Dec 13, 2009
    Blinking dash screen

    Hi i am having a problem after i install tiny7 rev 01 and i just wanted to know if anyone else was having similar problems
    But after i install and i try to start up i get a blinking dash on my top left corner of the screen for like 5 minutes before windows 7 decides it wants to boot up.
    The time also varies it could boot up as fast as 3 minutes and as long as 10.
    Is anyone else having similar problems?
  7. macrumors member


    Nov 30, 2009
  8. macrumors 68040


    Mar 24, 2003

    Why!? :confused: What on Earth are you going to "rip out" that you couldn't just remove under the Add/Remove Windows Components section in Control Panel? The Windows 7 installation isn't big anyway, so why? Are you using a 20 GB hard drive or something?
  9. Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    Read the post. The main movement is to reduce the file size AND increase the performance by turning off services/daemons that are not critical to the core operation of the OS. While I may not embrace this, I certainly can see why people are wanting it, if it provides a faster execution and tiny footprint.
  10. macrumors 68040


    Mar 24, 2003
    I read the post. By removing what? And "increase the performance" for what? The OS? A specific program? And how is that going to "increase performance" and by how much? The benefits will be negligible, if there is any. As far as gaining space is concerned, what specific things are you talking about that you couldn't remove in the Add/Remove Windows Components section of Control Panel?
  11. thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008
    Bootup times have also been on the slow side for me (especially compared with the <30 secs it takes for OS X to boot) but not as slow as 5 or 10 minutes... Have you tried running the standard disc optimisation tools (e.g. defrag, etc.)?

    Your favourite local BitTorrent search engine would be a good bet.

    Working on a 1.86 Ghz MBA with a 128 GB SSD has taught me: a) to look for the least bloated program that will do any given job (c.f. Pixelmator vs Photoshop); and b) to be as efficient with drive space as possible. Using Tiny7 means I can set the Boot Camp partition at its minimum size (5 GB) and still have room for the few files I need on the infrequent occasions I use Windows.

    Scroll down to line 416 in the readme (linked in the OP) to see what has been taken out.

    Also see my OP for clarification on optimization as far as speed is concerned. To wit:

  12. macrumors newbie

    Jan 11, 2010
    i have a fix

    Fix for your slow boot problem, 1 search in google and this was the first result..
    Now everyone thank fearhope for literally saving hours and hours of our lives from looking at a blank screen.

    Re: [OS X] Bootcamp Windows 7 Ultra Slow Boot

    It's because your license is not a correct one. so as to detour this problem, you can use the SLIC(Software Licensing Description Table) v2.1 with virtual BIOS.

    you can find the patch at the following links.
    (note that you should choose "2. SLIC 2.1 Bios Install" > "3. HIDDEN 2" mode in administrator previleges. HIDDEN 2 mode is compatible to mac motherboards.)

    A.I_7 english version

    actually I don't know if Im allowed to post it here, ill give you the link to the forum post, blame fearhope for posting win7 activation patches ;)
    Go Here

    I can confirm this as working, however my only problem with tiny 7 is that I cant seem to get the updates working yet, 1 worked but the rest have an unknown error, and well, windows without updates is like an ashtray on a motorbike or a chocolate teapot.
  13. thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008
    Thanks very much for the tip! :) I also found these step-by-step instructions:

    EDIT: In case those links go down, here are mirrors: 1, 2.

    Updates are a known problem with Tiny7. Since I used Windows so infrequently, I'm happy to take my chances -- but yes, people thinking about putting it on their system should be aware of this...
  14. macrumors 6502


    Nov 17, 2007
    United States
    stop being such a negative nancy
  15. macrumors newbie

    Dec 12, 2009
    He's not being negative, he is asking some valid questions and raising some valid points.

    Tiny 7 is just a bad idea, the only thing you will gain is a smaller footprint at the expense of performance. With XP you could get some significant performance gains by shutting off a lot of unused services, it's not the same in W7. Even with XP, the Tiny XP was only a good idea for the people who weren't bright enough to do it themselves with Nlite, they had to settle for what someone else decided they didn't need. If you want a customized OS, at least customize it yourself.:rolleyes:
  16. macrumors newbie

    Jan 18, 2010

    Thanks..... I reinstalled countless times thinking it was a dead install before I realized it was taking ages to boot.
  17. macrumors 68040


    Mar 24, 2003
    Thank you. Guys, don't get me wrong, I'm all for customizing and bettering something, but this just isn't worth it (or at least I've never seen any evidence making it worthwhile).

    Nice evidence. :rolleyes: I came in asking legitimate questions and the best you can do is make childish remarks.

    Thank you, this was an answer I was looking for. Some of those however, such as Error Reporting and Windows Search, might not be such a great idea to remove, but with most others I can understand.
  18. macrumors newbie

    Feb 3, 2010
    My own problems.

    Alright, so i've been working to get XP working on my mac for a LONG time now. Here's the rundown.

    I started by using VMware fusion, and just installing tinyxp rev 09, which was fine, only. I couldn't even run LoL (League of Legends.) Which is NOT a graphic intensive game, so I was seriously disappointed. Do I found the bootcamp assistant and started that up, partitioned, inserted rev 9 and began. The install went fine, then I got to the end and boom, unkown disk error. (Which I found out later was because it was formatted to FAT32, but I don't have a genuine xp disk to do the swap with.)

    So I tried again NOT using bootcamp, and partitioning it from the tiny xp interface, and formatted it to NTFS, IT worked fine, but as windows was starting, blue screen.

    SO now here I am, trying tiny7 (Rev 1 and 2) And I cannot for the life of me get it to work. I through the installation process, and it all went fine, until the 2nd reboot.

    The first reboot was fine, the interface popped up and the authentication box appeared, when it restarted again though, I was stuck at the black screen with the flashing bar.

    Now, I read this thread, I figured, "It's just being slow, I'll give it some time" So I tried leaving there OVERNIGHT. I woke up the next day, still no boot.

    ") After all the Tiny7 trickery has completed in this first boot of Windows, it'll reboot. Again, hold down option to boot into Windows. You'll see a rather ugly eXPerience desktop background."

    I couldn't even get to that step, so I'm not sure what to do at this point. I have tried this with rev 1 and 2, and I repartitioned each time. Any idea's?
  19. macrumors newbie

    Feb 3, 2010
    My own solution.

    I fixed it in my own super odd way.

    IN case you were one of the few having the same problem, here is how I managed.

    During the install, after the FIRST boot, when the command prompt screen comes up when you are actually in windows, it says authentication. EXIT THAT.

    Now, You don't reboot, instead you go to this thread, and download the fix posted above. You then run it, follow the instruction, and ta-da.

    NOw I don't know if this was needed, but I, in the same program, did manual authentication, the chose windows 7, then I just did option a: IT said successful. From that point, I have been able to very quickly boot tiny7, and without fail so far. The bios is set to restart with system failure, (I.E. shutting your laptop.) Which is annoying, but you can change that in the bios.

    If I have done something bad, tell me. I would like NOT to break things, I'm fairly new to these things, so I am still learning.

    Also, what drivers do you need to install with this version of tiny7?
  20. macrumors newbie

    Feb 3, 2010
    Ignore my previus posts.

    So, turns out that what I was doing was actually running tiny7 off the CD, as soon as I restarted to boot into my mac, BAM. Same problem again, it gets stuck at the black screen forever.
  21. macrumors regular

    Oct 14, 2007
    Does anyone have a problem with bluetooth not discovering or connecting to anything on rev0 (the pre-release one)? I'm thinking about upgrading to rev1 but it's a huge hassle as I have to re-install all of my games if I do.
  22. thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 17, 2008
    It may be that your boot.ini file (located in the root folder) is not configured correctly.

    I had a similar-sounding problem when installing XP on a Thinkpad using a USB key. Because there was a hidden partition on the drive (which is kind of what the OS X partition looks like to Windows by default), it took a bit of fiddling with the boot.ini file to get the computer to look for Windows in the correct partition.

    This tutorial helped me a lot. Specifically what you'd be looking to change is the last number in the string "disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(x)". I found it simpler to use a text editor to change the boot.ini file rather than doing it through msconfig.
  23. macrumors member

    Jan 13, 2008
    windows 7 doesn't use a boot.ini file - uses some whacky .msi thing now apparently. I'm having the flashing screen issue now - using rev02. I've downloaded two rev02 torrents thinking it could be the download, burned several disks at varying speeds.

    It's really starting to bug me now, their could be an explanation in a small error I found at the automated point of the install that's slightly hidden. Has anyone had luck with it yet? If so, how'd you do it?
  24. macrumors member

    Jan 13, 2008
    I've worked it out, for anyone who's still getting the flashing cursor error, here's how to fix it.

    Tiny7 installs its bootloader - only it assumes it's the only operating system on the machine. I don't know the details exactly, but it was listing 'device' as 'c:' in bcdedit.exe, whereas it should have been pointing at the partition that windows is installed to.

    You'll get this error if you've got this issue: "there is no disk in the drive. Please insert a disk into drive \device\harddisk2\DR2." Don't click anything, it's pausing the installation giving you much needed time for the fix.

    Either open up bcdedit and point the mbr to the parition - OR use the much simpler option, install easybcd -google it- from a usb or from the net. Open up the program and delete the only boot record there, install a fresh one using the tool - set it to windows 7. You'll notice now device is labeled 'boot', as it should be.

    hope that's clear, good luck guys.
  25. macrumors 6502a

    Aug 21, 2010
    Athens, Greece
    I tried the easybcd method (bcdedit won't open in tiny7) but it didn't work.
    I still get the flashing cursor with the black screen...
    Can you help me further please? I did just as you said and it won't work... And I don't want the normal windows 7, they take 12gb and my total is 64... Windows xp isn't a choice either, and the best option here is to make tiny7 work!
    Btw, I'm using osx lion on the base macbook air 11" 2011 model, and using refit for my boot.

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