To Clone, or not to Clone?

Discussion in 'Community' started by coolocity, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. coolocity macrumors regular

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    #1
    Potential Medical Benefits

    • The possibility that through cloning technology we will learn to renew activity of damaged cells by growing new cells and replacing them.
    • The capability to create humans with identical genetic makeup to act as organ donors for each other, i.e., kidney and bone marrow transplants.
    • The benefit of studying cell differentiation at the same time that cloning is studied and developed.
    • Sterile couples will be able to have offspring will have either the mother’s or father’s genetic pattern.

    Potential Harms and Disadvantages

    • The possibility of compromising individualities.
    • Loss of genetic variation.
    • A “black market” of fetuses may arise from desirable donors that will want to be able to clone themselves, i.e., movie stars, athletes, and others.
    • Technology is not well developed. It has a low fertility rate. In cloning Dolly, 277 eggs were used, 30 started to divide, nine induced pregnancy, and only one survived to term (Nash).
    • Clones may be treated as second-class citizens.
    • Unknown psychosocial harms with impacts on the family and society.

    Hmm, I value human life, and if this can preserve human life, I'm all for it. What do you think?
     
  2. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #2
    As clever as it all is, and as benifits it could reep. I just don't think it's worth it, it's far to dangerous.
    We are getting far to clever for our own good, and sadly the human race cannot be trusted with such powerfull sciences, mainly because of our on-going search for power, our greed and selfishness.
    I think it would end up in the wrong hands and end up causing far more problems than it could ever solve.
     
  3. iGav macrumors G3

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    #3
    It'd be like that Aphex Twin video....... you know the one where all the people, even little girls have the same face as the Aphex Twin :p :p :p
     
  4. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    #4
    As much as I hate to admit it, human kind really is not ready for the consequences of cloning humans. We need more time to experiment and to develop a more complete code of ethics to apply to the research. The medical benefits are tremendous, but so are the potential consequences. I think research should proceed with caution until the full implications of cloning, both animal and human can be realized. Scientists may complain about the government slowing their progress, but this is exactly what we need. For once, I actually agree with one of G. Dubya's decisions.
     
  5. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #5
    Its not even a matter of testing, the ethical implications are too heavy to deal with right now. If you make a clone, what sort of rights do they have? What about spiritual issues? Do clones have a soul? Could a clone be a priest/rabbi/iman, etc. Cloning of body parts is a much better way to go here, not the whole person.

    For about 20k you can get a clone of you pet by a company in Texas. Now that's crazy!
     
  6. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

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    #6
    Fine. I think Apple should license OS X to Umax, Motorola and Power Computing again.

    I'll agree to agree.


    :D :D :D
     
  7. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #7
    That's insane! It shouldn't be allowed!
     
  8. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #8
    er...how is this related to cloneing? :confused:
     
  9. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

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    #9
    Mac clones. :)

    Ok. Ok. Might be a little too 1996 for some of ya. ;)
     
  10. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #10
    when have ethics ever gotten in the way of "progress"?

    human cloning is happening now. somewhere, someplace it is happening.
     
  11. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #11
    Your probably right, sadly :(
    Who know's what our governments are up to...actually, I'd rather not know...
     
  12. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #12
    Without getting into a religious debate here....

    Lets assume for a moment that there is a God, and we all have souls. Would a clone have a soul? How could it. Thus, would it be moral, to a) create a creature without a soul, and b) to truely play God. Personally, that is sick, and shouldn't be allowed.
     
  13. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #13
    I say that cloning humans is pointless until we can control the process enough to grow individual organs or even a replacement body with no brain. Until that point it will cause more problems and endless debates then it's worth. Cloning for infertile couples is a different matter and I'm all for that.
     
  14. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #14
    Dolly was an unfortunate side effect of british humor.

    Cloning and stem cell research are LEAST useful for whole-organism cloning.

    The best application is in simply cloning good, healthy, neutral tissue to replace toasty organs. No whole human clones. Dolly was an unfortunate distraction from the main course of cloning research.

    Stem cells have the unique ability to become ANY tissue. The hullaboloo over it is mainly:

    A: the religious Zealots cuz it makes them question their faith.

    and

    B: that the large pharmaceutical companies would dry up and blow away.:eek: :D :cool: :rolleyes: ;) :D
     
  15. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Re: Dolly was an unfortunate side effect of british humor.

    It doesn't make me question my faith, but it does make me question our morality. Again, no one has answered my question. Would it have a soul?
     
  16. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #16
    Re: Re: Dolly was an unfortunate side effect of british humor.

    since we're talking hypetheticals here, i would say yes a clone has a soul. it has a brain and the ability to think, question and make decisions.

    can only god create a soul?

    it does open up some serious questions, doesn't it?

    how to define soul is a toughie.
     
  17. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    #17
    I see cloning as a very interesting experiment, but, what I see is that all is pointing not to the science, it is pointing to create a new industry based in cloning.

    I do not really would like to have a clone of myself, I'm a prototype but my clones would be just a bunch of copies. A cloned humman been would not be original, it would be another humman been of course but his/her live would evolve from another point of view, like the replicants in Blade Runners.

    I see that to capitalize the cloning is a big mistake.

    Just imagine to create a clone of Marilyn Monrow, she was cute but there are tons of new cut girls out there. Would be the clone of Marilyn Monrow just like the original? of course not, she would be own by some one for sure, may be rented for sex or something.

    The cloning is a good thing, the ideas of what people wants to do with the cloning are not organic, just a bussiness, to create a new need like those infomertials.
     
  18. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #18
    hellnah it does not make me question my faith.... never did.

    did you know cloning is in the bible?
     
  19. ShaolinMiddleFinger macrumors 6502a

    ShaolinMiddleFinger

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    #19
    I don't trust it. I'm pretty sure they (all the big wigs with their money...) already cloned a human being but know for a fact that society isn't ready for them.
     
  20. fitzg2md05 macrumors newbie

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    #20
    hmmm

    im for cloning...the indiviual isnt the exact same as they would like you to believe. The mitochondrial DNA is different. HOWEVER...im completely against the fact that they destroy numerous Fetus, babies, eggs, whatever you want to call them, in the process. Those are human as well. If they can clone without killing life, then go for it. And yes...im sure there are already clones walking around. However, that doesnt make the process right.
     
  21. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    #21
    Re: Re: Dolly was an unfortunate side effect of british humor.

    Well, does your arm or your kidney have a soul? If people just did research on stem cells from aborted fetuses, what harm is there in that? The potential benifits (curing paralyzed people, getting millions of people off of dialysis, never losing someone while they waited for organ transplants, etc) would far out weigh the risks. What happens to aborted fetuses right now? they get thrown into an incinerator. Wouldn't it be much better if those cells were put to use?
     
  22. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #22
    What's at issue here, more than whole body vs pieces parts is how our society and government will handle it. Everyone who has chimed in here on this thread has their own opinion, and that will be exactly what we'll see when cloning starts happening in the real world.

    It will be worse than any type of racism we've yet experienced, many people will look down at clones, thinking them second class citizens or worse. We're not ready for cloning, pure and simple. We have enough problems as it is, but its also inevitable that it will happen soon. I wonder who will be the first person to have a clone produced that comes forward for the whole world to see.....
     
  23. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #23
    Re: Re: Re: Dolly was an unfortunate side effect of british humor.

    Nope, you miss my point. I am not talking about using Stem cells research. I am speaking of cloning an entire human. Would that human have a soul? That is the question that I post, not the research side, but the total clone?
     
  24. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #24
    RE: cloning an entire human.

    Ah, You see when the question was raised " To Clone or not to Clone?" I assumed we were talking about the main thrust of the research, which is PARTS not whole bodies.

    From a metaphysical standpoint:

    A whole-organism clone would not have a "soul" of it's own. It would have a diluted piece of the original. Being that Humans are EXTREMELY complex and VERY metaphysically attuned it would not be a longlived and healthy creature.

    I don't think a mammalian clone would ever survive more than a month without constant maintenance.

    Even among plants where both metaphysically and metabolically they are relatively simple Clones are distinctly less healthy. Cloned plants also have an absolute limit of 3 or so generations before they just go limp. It's difficult to ignore the metaphysics of Cloninfg when otherwise healthy strains of plants can only go on for so many individuals before petering out.

    In short: Whole-person Cloning is a pipedream of a few radical Facist scientists and a Bogeyman used by the Radical Right to scare the populus into abandoning the whole line of research as "God's Business". I firmly believe IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH ANY SCALE.
     

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