To G5, or not to G5?

Discussion in 'Hardware Rumors' started by MacManiac1224, Apr 12, 2002.

  1. MacManiac1224 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Location:
    NY
    #1
    MWNY:

    I know it is early, but let's do a recap of what we know.

    Powerbooks and iBooks need updates, wheter that will happen before MWNY or at MWNY, is up to Steve, only he knows

    iMacs: don't think upgrade is needed, but is always a possiblity. Maybe a slight speed increase on the top end model to 900mhz.

    Powermacs: this is where speculation is rampant: Apple is asking itself this question right now: to G5, or not to G5? Not sure what they are going to de, but this is how I see it: Apple could release a new and more powerful G4 this summer and continue sales of Powermacs at near to current levels.
    or
    Apple could dazzle us with a new G5, which would spark a lot of sales (including myself).
    The only reason why I think Apple would not do that is becasue:
    if they releasethe G5 in MWNY, a lot of people are going to buy it, but would as many people buy it when computer sales were doing good? Right now they are not doing good. Apple might wait to MWSF and release it there. One more thing:

    the Apple product line needs a refresh:
    we need a G5 in Powermacs, the consumer line is fine, but the power side, needs more power. Also: Apple will need power with the new Shake and Tremor software programs that they are going to release. They may want to co-release the G5 with the new software showing that the Mac with the G5 will be the fastest most cost-effective video-editing machine up to date.

    That's what I think, I am not even going to attempt debating about a new digital hub device, I am only looking at the computer side. Now, what do you guys think?
     
  2. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #2
    Re: To G5, or not to G5?

    How many G5 threads can we have going at once?

    How many G5s does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

    None, they don't care, they can see in the dark.
     

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  3. Catfish_Man macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2001
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #3
    You left out...

    ...the possibility that they aren't releasing the G5 because they aren't done with it yet. I have a guess that we'll see a new motherboard (FW2, USB2, 266MHz Bus w/DDR ram, ATA100 or greater) with the last G4 in it, possibly to test out new mobo stuff before using it with the G5. Has Apple ever done this before (aside from the original G4, that was just because they didn't have the real one done)?
     
  4. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #4
    Re: You left out...

    On the original G4s, the 350 MHz model had a G4 on a G3 mobo. But it was released the same time as the 400 and 450 MHz machines, which had the new mobo.

    Apple could put a faster G4 on a board slated down the road for a G5. It might make them faster, given the bus will be speedier.
     
  5. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #5
    Don't forget, we also know that Firewire 2 is around the corner, and its introduction will require its addition to (and thus new versions) of every computer Apple sells.
     
  6. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    Ha ha haaa!
    #6
    Re: Re: You left out...

    Not quite... the first 400 had the Yikes! mobo too. I'm one of those "lucky" owners... :rolleyes:
     
  7. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #7
    All of the initial G4 releases were on the Yikes board. The second release was of the Sawtooth. The Sawtooth board was the first true G4 logicboard. I don't remember what the current code name of the G4 logicboard is, but if Apple does put a G5 chip into it, it will be slightly altered. Just as the Yikes was, it was a hybrid between a true G4 logicboard and the G3 logicboard.

    I remember back when the G4 was first released and I saw an Apple rep. I asked him about the new G4 and he informed me that the true G4 logicboard was going to be coming out later, and that the Yikes was a stop-gap measure. With that in Mind, if Apple does release a G5 chip, I would really look over the spec's to see what has changed. If you can afford to wait, do so. At least until the second release. You will get a faster system, and if any bugs crop up, they will be squished by then.
     
  8. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
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    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #8
    yikes question

    everyone references the "yikes" g4. i read about it being a stop-gap release but what in real terms was wrong with the machine? how did it compare with the follow-up g4? and why was it called " yikes"?:confused:

    thanks
     
  9. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

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    Ha ha haaa!
    #9
    There's nothing exactly WRONG with the machine, per se, but rather it's just a B/W G3 with a graphite case slapped on and a G4 processor inside. Nothing else was really changed (that I know of.)

    The Yikes! G4's, like the B/W G3's, also had PCI graphics, so I can't upgrade my graphics card with the newer AGP cards. That's a big bummer for me. Also, the PCI graphics models are at the low end of Apple's priority when it comes to compatibility and support with the current DVD Player, OpenGL, etc.

    I have no idea why they decided to call it Yikes!. Apple has a lot of weird codenames, and I'm sure they all have some kind of "insider" significance with the developers/programmers.
     
  10. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    BrisVegas, Australia
    #10
    i'm sure that we'll see a G5 at NY this year. the iBooks and the TiBooks realllly need a decent speed-bump. it makes sense that the iBooks won't be upgraded until the TiBooks are and the TiBooks won't be until the G5 comes out. there have been some rumors about a TiBook at WWDC, and they sound like they are pretty accurate.
    i think that there is a strong possibility of G5's at NY, and not only that, i reckon that by the end of the year there will be G4's in the iBooks.
    as for not releasing new product while the current ones are selling good, they're not. the iMac's might be doing alright, but lots of people, including myself are waiting for the new TiBooks. so i think that Apple has to release the new TiBooks and G5 as soon as possible!
     
  11. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #11
    hemingray

    thanks for the info

    and congrats on the avatar!:)
     
  12. Catfish_Man macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2001
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #12
    The next TiBook...

    ...is going to be quite a sweet machine. The new MPC7445 runs at up to 800MHz and uses less power than the current one (which I believe is either 7410 low end and 7450 high end, or 7440 low end and 7450 high end). Apple'd have to be insane not to use it.
     
  13. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #13
    kind of looks like the time for the laptops for new york and g5 for san francisco

    laptops being upped and a g5 would be sweet if they all happened at new york and follow that up with no mac under 1 ghz for san francisco
     
  14. Tenniru macrumors newbie

    #14
    I say they make a new brand of pears. I wonder what qualiity they have? Wait.

    Pear G5.
     
  15. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #15
    If I am not wrong, the G3 iMac came out in August of 1998, and the upgrade to the G4 came a year later.

    I hate to be so negative, but we might have to wait until San Fransisco 2003 for the G5, as Apple probably still wants to push iMac G4 sales before upgrading their PowerMacs with a bagfull of tricks.

    But we shall see.

    By the way, nice going on the 4 digit score, AlphaTech.
    _______________

    Any time is a great time for iPod.
     
  16. Pentium Killer macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Location:
    Berlin
    #16
    Well,I really do not know,why we should not believe this one:

    Dorsal M
    Junior Member

    Posts: 9
    posted 03-19-2002 11:25 AM                   
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Work on the G5 (MPC7500) is progressing nicely at Motorola and I can only assume Apple had a role in the development as there are many features included that are condusive to a top-notch desktop processor capable of bring the PowerMac into the 21st centure as a real performer in the compute intensive field.

    A recent development box has allowed us to open and examine some details that appeal to us as engineers and hardware designers. One of the machines is built in a G4 case with a smaller motherboard. the interesting part is that the motherboard is a cheaper 4 layer variety while the CPU daughter card is made on a more expensive 8 layer board. the reason for this is very simple and I will get to that in a moment. The CPU card itself is similar in shape and pin connector to the one used in modern G4s but is a bit larger in surface area. The reason for this is the fact that the G5 CPU has a built-in memory controller that interacts with high-speed DDR-SDRAM. This RAM runs at 133MHz DDR but the G5 documentation we have (preliminary) states that 166MHz DDR (333MHz effective) is supported. To run at these fast speeds you must utilize 2 dimensional PCB space efficiently. Apple has done this well. On the CPU daughter card you will find 3 slots for DDR-SDRAM DIMMS. They are distanced from the actual CPU core to allow for the heatsink placement, but in this configuration (since on the card the CPU is hard soldered to the PCB) you can design DIMM slots that can operate at 133, 166, and quite possibly 200MHz at DDR speeds. In fact, I believe the impedence should be low enough to allow for 4 DIMM slots. No L3 RAM is located on the card although it is fully supported under the documentation.

    RapidIO is used to connect the CPU to a centralized controller that controls peripherals such as gigabit ethernet, Firewire, USB, ATA interface, audio input/output, AGP/PCI bridge, etc. The RapidIO interface operates in a 16 bit full duplex mode running at 500MHz. This bus is seperate from the memory bus and therefore asyncronous. It does not share the bus either like with the G4 and MPX. PCI-X seems to be implimented fully (it's backwards compatible with PCI 32/64) and AGP remains operating at 4X speeds.

    A whole new paradigm in PowerMac design will be introduced soon and it will be a modern example in smart computer design, taking advantage of new trechnologies and foward thinking design. These are late beta machines and the finishing touches are being applied to cut out the rough edges for consumer consumption.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #17
    You know, that sounds great to me, a non-computer type, because it has all sorts of lingo and sounds professional, but, even though I don't have a comp-science background, I do have a JD, and unfortunately, without knowing the source, that last post has very little credibility.

    So, that begs the question, where did that information come from?

    Evidence rule -> Can you say double or triple hearsay?
     
  18. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #18
    It all depends on where you got it. Sounds interesting, although I was hoping for faster memory, not staying at 133MHz at the start. The bus speed will be nice.
     
  19. Pentium Killer macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Location:
    Berlin
    #19
    I got that on Apple Insider Forums,so take it with a grain of salt,but,who can tell if it is right or not,on that forum,they were scratching their eyes out,one says this is true,the other say no,here another of that posts :

    Dorsal M
    Junior Member

    Posts: 9
    posted 04-03-2002 11:15 AM                   
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    An undisclosed amount of time ago we received 2 new PowerMacs for testing. These were in generic G4 cases but were painted another color (black). I doubt this is indicative of future case but an attempt to obfuscate what the real case will look like.

    These 2 systems are similar to the last one we received. Both are G5 based running at speeds of 1.33GHz and 1.66GHz. As you can tell from these speeds, the RapidIO bus has been upgraded from 500MHz to 667MHz, most likely, in my opinion, to be more syncronous with a DDR-333 RAM option, although this is not as necessary as those to busses are not shared as they were with MPX. I beleive this processor also is limited to processing 32bit integers but memory addressing has been increased to the 40-48bit area. In the documentation it shows the motherboards having support for 64GB but that processor can access more in future motherboard implementations. Possibly as high as 4TB (42bit addressing). The heatsinks are minimal with no active cooling so higher speed processors are likely down the pipeline. These units have full support for PC2700 DDR-SDRAM and contain 3 slots on the card. AGP remains 4X (GeForce4 MX) and the standard 4 PCI slots are all operational. Testing will begin sometime today. I hope to have more details soon.
     
  20. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #20
    Three slots and 64GBs?!? That's a 3x(21 1/3 GB DDR-SDRAMM). What is the current max on DDR memory?

    I'm not even worried about the 4 TB, that's totally crazy and very few apps would need that, today. You could keep all your documents and files in memory all the time and not have to worry about HDs! Except when the power went off.

    Could you post a link to the board, I'd be interested in seeing some of the other posts.
     
  21. Pentium Killer macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Location:
    Berlin
    #21
    Sure,this is the link,where the thread starts:

    forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001420&p=1
     
  22. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #22
    If I were apple, I'd paint every test case a different color and use different models, like a black G3 case, a red G4 case, etc... and keep track of who had what cases, and if I saw someone claiming to be testing a black G4 case with this and that, I'd go and castrate the leak.

    If this story is true, great, but boy, Apple needs to do a better job with picking its testers if they are all over the net giving up secrets.

    Heck, the WWF does a better job keeping its stories secret than Apple keeps its future hardware secret judging by that post.
     
  23. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #23
    re: secrets

    wanna learn about secrets? hear about the new stuff on the horizon? meet IT people at HP, Sun, Apple, IBM, Microsoft, WD, etc...

    move to san jose...nothing is secret and really nobody really gives a rip...it's like the tourists who come to northern california (to rural areas from the city) and literally slow to 35 on the highway just because they saws a deers

    nuff said
     

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