To Hezbollah, with love from Israel.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogbone, Jul 18, 2006.

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  1. dogbone macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #1
    What looked like a massive overreaction by Israel at first seems to be shaping up into something entirely different as not much at all in the way of condemnation radiates from the Arab press. The deafening silence from the Arab world appears to back up claims that Hezbollah and Hamas along with their Iranian sponsors are getting a bit irritating for everyone.



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  2. Queso macrumors G4

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    #2
    I found this an interesting read on the BBC Website this morning. With any luck, the Lebanese will appeal for international help to kick Hezbollah out of the country.
     
  3. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #3
    this brings one word to mind.


    HOPE:)

    Thanks for the thread and link.
     
  4. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #4
    The people responsible for brainwashing these kids on both sides are creating a whole new generation of hate. Disgusting!

    [​IMG]
     
  5. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #5
    FFTT, I understand the sentiment, but let's try to keep this on topic. Which hopefully is about a massive miscalculation on Hezbollah's part.

    The IDF is saying that they'll be finished up in about two or three weeks and it looks like they'll have that much time. It appears everyone except Iran and Syria and Hamas want Hezbollah finished with, and who better to do it than the Israelis.

    Quite a few innocent civillians are going to die, but that's what happens when a military terrorist organisation sets up shop amongst civillians. Right out of nowhere this could be, rather than the beginning of WWIII, a new cooperation in the ME. Out of death, life is born.

    It's crazy that such a catastrophe for the Lebanese could give rise to hope, but that is the madness that is the Middle East.
     
  6. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #6
    And what about Israel's miscalculation that now they have provoked many more decades of extremist reprisals on Israel and on their allies.

    In my view, the neo-con hawks in charge of Israel's leadership are deliberately undermining any hope for peace in the region.

    Where will it end?
     
  7. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #7
    It's always a surprise in the middle east. I guess it will end when everyone has had enought of the bs.

    More...
     
  8. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #8

    Do you really believe the bombing of Lebanon and the killing of innocents is being received well in the Arab world? You are living in a fantasy. Hezbollah grew to its current strength in this type of asymmetrical warfare against Israeli occupation and the idea that it will be destroyed in two or three weeks is yet another fantasy. Stop the cheerleading and wake up.
     
  9. stubeeef macrumors 68030

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    #9
    Do the fact tha Hezb has 12000 rockets in the region, a group that is to be disarmed and hated by the lebonese, a group that wants to wipe Israel off the planet, show intent to only defend S Lebonon? Now comeon. Someone breaks into your house and abducts your child, a group that has publicly stated they hate your family, do you just cry to the police? Or do you become proactive and seek those that will cause you harm.
     
  10. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #10
    Why the hell are little girls writing messages on giant shells?

    Whatever you might think about this ongoing situation, that seems wrong and a little creepy.

    As to Israeli strategy here - I am not quite sure what to think.

    I think that Israel certainly has the capacity to severely damage Hezbollah - certainly their presence in Lebanon - but then what?

    Will Hezbollah regroup in Syria? Will a new group rise from the ashes? Will the Israelis have to occupy Lebanon indefinitely to restore security and stability? Will they just get shot at there?

    While most Israelis and Lebanese (and Syrians and Iranians for that matter), just want to get on with their lives - you have to wonder how this will play to those who might/will exploit a new situation.

    Perceptions of Israeil power-projection have not exactly gone over like gangbusters in the past.

    Guess we'll see...
     
  11. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #11
    No I do not think for a moment that any sane person receives news of the killing of innocents, well.

    However when so many have died and continue to die, as callous as it may seem, pragmatism would have me believe that a small percentage more in the short term might be a reasonable trade off to eliminate the chaos that is Hamas and Hezbollah. Especially as they are really fighting an Iranian war against Israel on Lebanese territory.
     
  12. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #12
    What can we expect when religious leaders and adults continue to brainwash
    entire new generations of children to carry on their hate?

    Christian, Muslim and Jew, all of them brainwashing their children to accept and justify hate. It sickens me.
     
  13. freeny macrumors 68020

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    #13
    Religion in general sickens me.
     
  14. stubeeef macrumors 68030

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    #14
    funny how these groups get support from Syria, but don't attack from Syria. The only people they kid is themselves.
     
  15. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #15
    The Israelis are reported to have hit Iranian Zelzal missiles, with a range of 160 kilometers. Zelzals are certainly are not in South Lebanon for the 4th July celebrations.
     
  16. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #16
    Right now with ongoing evacuations, Israel is forced to stand down a bit,
    but this appears to be far from over.

    Israel may have big guns, but they are clearly outnumbered if they carry things to far.

    Actually, I think they already have gone too far and all of us will suffer for it
    one way or another.
     
  17. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #17
    FFTT,

    The IDF is talking in terms of two to three weeks.
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #18
    How does that make any sense?

    Hamas and Hezbollah may be alot of things - many of them bad - but they are not chaos.

    More importantly, how does Israel eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah when they are merely proxies for other powers? What good does it ultimately do - and whatever good it does do, for how long?

    I have sympathy for the Israei's position - due to the fact that their lot is anything but easy.

    Ironically, you have to wonder if this is really about Israel at all. It seems you could draw an analogy between the various Arab/Islamic factions and Israel and that of the Democrats and Republicans and illegal Mexicans.

    Power politics at it's finest...
     
  19. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #19
    Well it makes sense to me in this way... Hamas won political power. Quite an achievment. They were suddenly thrust on the big stage, yet after putting on their 'normal' suits, they come out and declare they are not dropping their goal of an Islamic state that entails the elimination of Israel. This guaranteed 100% that chaos would follow, as it is simply not possible for european governements to deal with a so called deomcratically elected government with these stated aims. That's one example.

    Another is that we now see that Hezbollah was stockpiling thousands of rockets including Zelzals, with all the associated infrastructure right in the heart of a civillian population. Madness. What for? If not chaos now then chaos later. They certainly weren't going to destroy Israel with these rockets, they only have one purpose, which we are now seeing. But it's backfiring on them.
     
  20. Sayhey macrumors 68000

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    #20
    It is precisely this way of thinking that helps Hezbollah and Hamas to GROW. When Israeli gunships launch missiles into apartment buildings to assassinate Hamas leaders regardless of the innocents killed they make Hamas stronger in its support among Palestinians. When Lebanese children are indiscriminately murdered by Israeli bombs it builds support among Lebanese people for people who will stand up and fight Israel, regardless of the politics of the defenders. The horrible reality is that on both sides of the conflict there are politicians who benefit from the refusal to negotiate a peaceful settlement of issues.

    As to Iran, the Israelis make a sad, sad error if they really believe Hezbollah is just an extension of Iranian policy. Nice propaganda that fits with the US administration's attempt to portray Iran as the next evil behind every plot, but it is simplistic and divorced from the reality of Lebanese politics.

    edit: btw, I'm with blackfox, the picture of Israeli schoolgirls writing messages on bombs to be delivered to Lebanon is very, very disturbing. That's a type of mentality I wouldn't want to project to the rest of the world.
     
  21. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

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    #21
    It is actually, in my opinion, statements like that which are propaganda. Hezbollah and Hamas grow when they are weakly attacked. They grow when they claim Israel pulling out of South Lebanon or Gaza is a victory for their strategies, and people believe them. The whole of the ME is and has been swathed in a tidal wave of anti israel and anti jewish propaganda for decades. Witness the recent screenings of The Protocals of Zion which were widely broadcast on Arabic and Iranian State television.

    There's something very different about this particular conflict. Maybe all the daily slaughter of hundreds of Sunnis and Shias by fellow muslims in Iran, has made life seem particularly cheap. Who knows. I guess we will just have to wait and see how it pans out. But there doesn't seem to be much Arabic rhetorical backlash for the civillian deaths. which after all are inevitable when an army situates itself within civillians. In fact if you think about it, that only 200 have been killed is a miraculously small number. It must be obvious that if killing civillians were Isreal's goal then there'd be thousands dead by now.

    Maybe the Lebanese are all thinking what the hell would have happened if Hezbollah got a lot more Zelzals set up and used them? Maybe the reality of what they've been tolerating has hit home. The Lebanese can see that Hezbollah is a recipe for more death. They will be seeing the nightly pictures of Iraq on Al Jazeera and it's not pretty.
     
  22. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #22
    Do you honestly believe Hamas and Hezbollah are as strong as they are today because Israel has been too SOFT on them? If your thinking represents the thinking of Israeli leaders then we are in for nothing but bloodshed for a very long time.

    They WERE victories for Hezbollah and Hamas. The fact they didn't represent military victories is irrelevant to their aims. Also the fact the withdrawals were done in a way that benefited a section of hard right Israeli political leaders doesn't change the fact they were victories for the hard right of Palestinian and Lebanese politics as well. As I said before, there are people on both sides who benefit from a never ending war.

    So perhaps it would make sense to conduct a policy the supports engagement with Arab and Iranian politicians who don't believe or use this crap?

    It is always the call of parties of war that their enemies don't value life like we do. It is a tired refrain that echos through many wars and is untrue today as it was before.

    It has been the policy of Israel for over 50 years to teach the Arabs lessons through superior firepower. Just how has that worked so far?
     
  23. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Not to be obstuse - but one might try looking to Macedonia as a lesson of what is going on in (Greater) Palestine.

    As always, history is never exactly repeated - but I feel that Macedonia (esp. around the turn of the 20th Century) is a sure guide to insight on the current mess in the ME.
     
  24. Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    #24
    Just as a matter of interest does anybody here think any other country would get away with something similar to what Israel is up to? I must say the Security council weakly tried only to be met with the usual US veto.Just asking like.(the only similar situation I can think of is in Central Africa,nice bunch of nations for Israel to line itself up with.

    On second thought US/UK in Iraq isn't to dissimilar although the Israeli's at least have the minimal excuse of a few attacks on itself.
     
  25. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #25
    You're going to have to explain this one a little more for me, blackfox.
     
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