To make an omlet, you need to break a few chefs

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by GeeYouEye, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000

    GeeYouEye

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    #1
    http://www.reason.com/blog/show/118420.html

    The original story:

    from here
    The officers enter the property without permission, invite drug dealers on the property, and are surprised when they get a gun pointed at them?

    The war on drugs is becoming far less worth it over time, if it ever was. How many innocent lives has it claimed? Completely innocent lives, even excluding users and dealers? Even if the answer is just this one, that's too many.
     
  2. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #2
    Good luck changing anything. If the Congress won't even stop an illegal war or impeach a law breaking President, why would they take action on a feel-good-solve-nothing "popular" program.
     
  3. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #3

    Amen to that!
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Sorry, but the officers involved should be strung up for this. An 80 year-old guy? Ohhhh- scary! :rolleyes:
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Govt is one of this nations biggest problems, another example of the cure being worse then the problem from a overzealous police state on the local,state and Federal level. Face it these guys all want to control others. All hail to the police state that wants to protect you from yourself.
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    Where in the article does it say that the officers were on the man's property? Where does it say that it's known who fired first?

    Sorry, but this one gets my spin detector going. A lot of unknowns seem to be filled in with assumptions.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Regardless, if you're a cop who can't figure out how to subdue an 80 year-old man (gun or no gun) without shooting him to death, you need to look for another job.
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    Honestly, it's not for me to say. I'm not a cop, and I'm not a witness. If he's shooting, the fact that he's 80 years old doesn't really seem to enter into the equation.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    I gotta agree that being 80 makes you no less lethal when in possession of a gun than being 30.

    I'm still unclear about the whole "tresspassing" thing here.

    I'm certainly no fan of the War on Drugs, but if you are in possession of a gun, don't be surprised if others feel threatened by it.

    On a side note, due to Florida's Castle Doctrine, if these cops were trespassing wasn't the old guy perfectly within his right to shoot them? All he has to do is feel threatened, right?
     
  10. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #10
    fwiw, i saw a TV news story on this, and they said the officers were on his property.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    Yes, I also heard that witnesses said he asked them to leave three times, then went in the house and got his gun. Sorry, but I don't blame the guy if that's the case.

    "The man came out three times and said move out of my yard. So after the third time he came out with a 357 and started shooting at the individuals," said a witness who did not want to be identified.

    http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=74573
     
  12. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #12
    That could be, but the article that everyone was reacting to did not include any of these details. Also, if that was the case then I don't see how the man could not have known that the men were police. Opening fire with .357 also exhibits a lack of judgment, don't you think? Most importantly, I have a feeling that if he'd managed to gun down one of those cops, the story would be very different.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    On the other hand, if someone tells you to get off their property three times, you leave. Or do we no longer have the right to private property? And what's the problem with identifying yourself as an officer?
     
  14. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #14
    Sure, the police should have identified themselves (SOP I should think), but we don't know in this case whether this happened or not, do we?

    Still, I'm certain that if one of the cops had been killed we'd probably be talking instead about trigger-happy gun nuts.
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Isn't that what we're talking about now- trigger-happy gun nuts?

    And just for the record, I would still defend the guy even if he had shot a cop, as long as they persisted being there while not identifying themselves.
     
  16. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #16
    Sorry - a firearm is just as deadly in a geezer's hands as anybody elses.

    It's the GUN, people.

    Another sterling example of the right to bear handguns protecting the citizenry.

    If you have a handgun for 'protection', you stand a way greater chance of being injured, or a member of your family being injured. Sadly, most often with that same gun.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    Read the rest of the thread. You'll find we've got more info on this.
     
  18. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #18
    Right, but whomever gets painted as the trigger-happy gun nut depends mainly on who was the better shot, doesn't it?

    I'm just pointing out that stories like this tend to be layered with emotional content. A lot of how we feel about them is results-driven, and not facts-driven. What matters most is that an 80-year-old man was shot by the police, not the facts behind how it happened, which we don't even know.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    Which also makes me wonder if the old man even was trying to hit them or just scare them off.
     
  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    Who knows? Maybe the cops were on his property pursuing a drug dealer (which is why they were in the neighborhood, according to the story). Maybe they identified themselves and the man was hard of hearing. Many possibilities.
     
  21. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #21
    With the twisted way the government looks at drug war enforcement, I wouldn't be surprised if they charged this unnamed, unconvicted drug dealer with manslaughter for the old guy they killed looking for him.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    it's funny that how people feel about the homeowner is dictated by how good a shot the cops are.
     
  23. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #23
    A classic case of the cure is worse then the offense. The Drug war hasnt worked for 50 years its time for a new approach and one that doesnt grow the prison system one that isnt getting peopled killed.
     
  24. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #24
    Exactly. If the government really wanted people to choose a drug free life they'd institute a lot more education on the subject (not the propaganda they spew now), treatment for those that are addicted (not incarceration) and punishment only for the unlawful activities they might commit irregardless of whether they are on drugs or not (i.e. drug use should neither excuse or be the blame for a given illegal behavior.)
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    ... ask them to stop making people feel so good.
     

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