Tom's Hardware Review of Windows Vista Beta 2

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by mduser63, May 31, 2006.

  1. mduser63 macrumors 68040

    mduser63

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    #1
    Tom's hardware has posted a 40-page review of Windows Vista Beta 2. After going through the whole review, I can honestly say that I was astonished to find that there's not one important thing that Vista has that Tiger doesn't have. In most cases, the equivalent feature in Tiger is better too.

    Another thing I was hoping for/expecting was an improvement of the Windows UI. I don't mean more eye-candy in the form of Aero, I mean a less-cluttered, more intuitive interface. Settings boxes are as complex and obtuse as ever, and the UI just seems filled with unnecessary stuff. The advanced settings box in IE7 is a perfect example.

    As for Aero itself, I'm unimpressed. The title bars are kind of translucent which is not my cup-of-tea (that's actually one thing I hate in Jaguar), but at least they're showy. Other than that, everything basically looks the same. The buttons and scrollbars are still plain and ugly. I've always particularly like OS X icons and the crappy icons in Windows are one area that stands out to me as a reason the Windows GUI is ugly. As I understand it, Vista does support large icons like OS X, but based on the screenshots in that review, there are still a lot of small, pixelated, non-anti-aliased, old-fashioned looking icons in the UI.

    Features in Vista that I noticed that are already in Tiger:

    The few things I saw that I do think are cool:
    • Option to copy with a different name when copying a file to a destination with a file of the same name.
    • Ability to set volume for individual applications in one place.
    • Solitaire has been shined up. :rolleyes:

    I realize that this review is still not complete. For one thing, there's no coverage of Vista's copy of Spotlight (or did that get removed?!?). Still it's the most thorough review I've personally read, and gives me a lot better feel for what Vista's really going to be like.

    I find the last part of the review funny:

    This thing hardly outshines Tiger and Leopard is really what it should be compared to anyway.
     
  2. menziep macrumors 6502a

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    #2

    Its a very good review - Im starting to like Vista now!
     
  3. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #3
    Apple not marketing its OS to the world before Vista enters market is another Apple blunder in my view. Guess they just want to sell hardware. Oh well, you make the best OS but......you only want to sell it with the hardware.:rolleyes:
     
  4. ManchesterTrix macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Because most consumers don't buy OSes, they buy computers.
     
  5. BakedBeans macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    #5

    what dont you get?

    they are a hardware company... they don't want to sell their OS to run on every standard PC that they dont know what hardware its being used on (one of hte reasons Mac OS os so good is because apple control all the hardware it runs on)

    If they sold their OS to run on anything they would sell next to no hardware - not a great move for a hardware company now is it.
     
  6. cyberdogl2 macrumors regular

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    #6
    Looks like PC users are in for a really great treat when vista comes out. Here's to great software on both platforms.
     
  7. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #7
    These two do really seem like nice features. :) I think they're both excellent ideas. And that dialog for adjusting volumes is a very nice example of how MS can actually do something intuitively when they put their mind to it. No confusing jungle of checkboxes.

    My additional peeves:

    * The desktop decomposition feature is classic Microsoft. :eek:

    * Microsoft made their scheme for setting user level limitations way too complicated. I think the one in OS X is very effective and yet very intuitive. There are only minor things I'd like to see in OS X (for instance, some things like being able to force Safari to be and stay in the private browsing "porn mode" for certain accounts, so that if you have a guest account, then anyone who uses it is automatically protected from having their stuff stored on that account on your computer. Also good for kiosks. I'm not sure if this is possible now).

    * As far as I can tell, Windows still can't handle simple things like renaming a file while another program is using it. Granted not every OS X program behaves properly when this is done (*cough* Microsoft Office *cough*), the fact that you could move and rename open files blew me away when I got OS X, because I was indoctrinated in MS' way of thinking (p. 28 I think?).

    * It's sad that Windows still can't really handle shutting down with programs running... not that computers should have to be shut down frequently, but this whole nuisance of Windows computers refusing to power down because apps won't let the OS do it is an absurdity (p. 30).

    * This is a general peeve, but it's a statement about the world, to me, when a review of a Beta 2 of an incredibly important operating system upgrade (for the industry world...even if it's a non-event for Mac users) has 8 or 9 pages dedicated to the games bundled in the OS.... *le sigh*

    My additional kudos:

    * One feature Vista inherits from XP, that I don't understand completely, but which seems like a nice thing from what I understand, is this System Restore business. With combo updaters and so on, and particularly with archive and install, it's not *that* hard to roll back a Mac. But it seems to be a lot easier on Windows.

    * I also am not that familiar with the Vista firewall, but does it have the feature like ZoneAlarms where it can notify you the first time a newly installed program tries to access the internet? I think this is a great idea...it's less of an issue on OS X, I think, because of the absence of spyware and malware, but it's still a nice concept. I know that there are apps that let you do this, but I think it's a nice thing to incorporate into the base firewall.

    * It's nice that IE has a plug-in manager (p. 8). I wouldn't mind seeing something simple like Tiger's Widget manager.

    * It's also nice that IE has the searchplugin / AcidSearch type of functionality built-in (p. 10). As much as I respect the developer of AcidSearch, I think Apple should also embrace this. If they could do it in a way such that Safari could use Moz searchplugins.... :D

    * Website printing improvements (p. 11) also seem nice.

    * I still think Windows has a much better help system than OS X (p. 17).
     
  8. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #8
    Hate to tell you this but Apple hardware and PC hardware are the same now for 99.9999999% of the machine. That argument does no longer apply. You make a great product then market it. Apple is missing the boat while Microsoft holds onto the rudder.
     
  9. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #9
    By the way, did anyone notice this C|Net article? Apparently Vista purposefully randomizes the memory location of system resources in order to prevent providing predictable targets for buffer overrun exploits... I feel like I should have something to say about that, but I'm not sure what it should be. :rolleyes:
     
  10. netdog macrumors 603

    netdog

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    #10
    Is there a public beta yet? I hate the flashy look with all the black, but do want to give it a try before passing judgement.
     
  11. ManchesterTrix macrumors 6502

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    Feb 24, 2005
    #11
    Yes, but the support is tightly controlled. Apple knows exactly the hardware that will be running their operating system so there's less in the way of conflicts

    This also means it makes MORE sense to keep OS X closed to just Apple computers, otherwise, there's even less reason to buy computers from Apple. If OS X was available for PCs, we'd have spent millions less with Apple.
     
  12. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #12
  13. SC68Cal macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    #13
    Notice the requirements that you need for BitLocker to be enabled.

    [​IMG]

    Still not as easy as FileVault, where all you do is check off a box in the System Preferences. A dialog like that is more likely to scare off your average user.

    The actual Aero interface, like the buttons reminds me of Ubuntu+GNOME.

    I'm not overly impressed so far. To me, it seems like all they did was spice up the GUI, and make it pester the living daylights out of you with all the access priviledges. It's almost like they're making up for all those years as a single user OS by having Vista annoy the hell out of you with all these popups and crap about having the correct priviledges.

    I'll hold on to my final thoughts until I get to try the OS for myself. Right now, I'm not very impressed.
     
  14. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #14
    right but it is by far more secure that fileVault. The reason that is more secure is because the enqetion key is not stored on the harddrive. The key has to remain unencrypted to read the stuff. In theory I could still a drive lock with filevault and get into the files. Hard but very do able. Having the key stored on another peice of hardware is a great way to keep it safe.
     
  15. plinden macrumors 68040

    plinden

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    #15
  16. bigandy macrumors G3

    bigandy

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    #16
  17. bigandy macrumors G3

    bigandy

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    #17
    yeah, i'm so used to this that i moved a big file while working on it today at the office. i'm still glad i backed it up :eek:

    The reason it's easier on a PC is because you need it more often there. :rolleyes:

    i've never met anyone (including my mum & dad) that needed to use Help on OS X! i think the windows one does leave a lot to be desired, and neither of them are great, but then, i've never really needed to use them.

    buutt, once i did go through a troubleshooter, for a laugh, in XP Home. boy, did i regret that one. instead of telling me why the internet connection (wasn't in fact) down, it restarted the computer and deleted ntldr.exe.
     
  18. treblah macrumors 65816

    treblah

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    #18
    Isn't BitLocker only included with the Enterprise and Ultimate SKUs of Vista?

    Tiger wins. ;)
     
  19. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #19
    True, but tell that to someone in one of those "10.4.x b0rked my system" threads... you only need such a thing once to appreciate it being there....

    With regard to BitLocker... I'm kind of surprised that you need either the TPM or the USB drive... for an enterprise type of security feature, and cannot use some sort of network drive or keyserver, although I guess there are downs to that too....
     
  20. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

    BornAgainMac

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    #20
    Using a simple Automator script or Applescript could open Safari in private browsing mode by default. I wonder if IE 7 or Firefox has that "mode". It is a pain to have to clear the cache and history after each session. A expert user will think you are looking at something if your history is always clear.
     
  21. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #21

    Well if understand it correctly the reason it can not use a network drive is by the looks of it most of the stuff is in the the area of the drive that requires the key. A lot of that stuff being needed for the OS and since you can not boot up to get on to the network drive it needs something connect to the computer it self to do it (either that be USB or TPM. It does have risk though because if you loose the usb the key is on you are sol on getting you data unlock.)
     
  22. jaxstate macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    I've used the help before. I think it's better than windows help system. But that's just my opinion.
     
  23. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #23
    I guess this is true... I guess I shouldn't imply that it is impossible now... rather that it would be nice if it was an account option that an admin could specify on a by-account basis. :)
     
  24. SC68Cal macrumors 68000

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    Feb 23, 2006
    #24
    So they take the second piece of hardware that has the encryption. No big deal.

    There is still a lot of territory that needs to be covered before data can be protected from physical theft. There are too many tools out there provided by manufacturers and OS makers that invalidate these security measures.

    I have some tools that I use on a daily basis that I would feel very uncomfortable with having floating around for anyone in the public to use.

    Hell, an idiot can get into your files by just booting into safe mode, if you don't have your security in windows set up correctly. I know one time my friend reset my password on my laptop as a joke and I just booted into safe mode as a workaround.
     
  25. Timepass macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    #25
    and the files you where going after where not set up to be protected. It easy to get around what you are talking about but go to file encryption you not going to be able to read it. I had some of those files stored on my hard drive that got pulled before I reformated it. Forgot to deencrypt them before I put them on a friends drive for storage. Guess what I cannt read them any more.

    The thing you are talking about. The date stored is now encrypt. the password thing you are talking about. guess what safe mode account (or account name Adminstor) did not have a password on it. That same safe mode trick would not work on my computer. I went in and made sure that the Adminstor account is passworded. Along with my main account. The account is only visible in safemode because it hidden the rest of the time but go in in with Tweak UI (MS powertoy) and you can choose to show it.

    Just tough I correct some of you miss infomation and miss understanding. The thing that work on your friends computer I can promise you will not work on mine because all the admin acounts (including Adminstor) are passworded. Since there is no admin account unpassword which is the only type of account that can reset a password you are SOL.

    As for Vista it a safe bet that you can not make an admin acount with out it having a password on it.
     

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