Turkish police nab 14 over 'honour killing'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by wdlove, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #1
    ISTANBUL - Turkey was in emotional turmoil on Wednesday amid reports that police had arrested a man who strangled his 14-year-old daughter to maintain family 'honour' after she was abducted and repeatedly raped by a stranger.

    Thirteen relatives who ordered the father to carry out the murder were also arrested.

    Most newspapers ran front-page stories on the killing, which provoked outrage in Turkey, where parliament passed a law last year to toughen penalties for so-called honour killings.

    http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/latest/story/0,4390,248229,00.html
     
  2. baby duck monge macrumors 68000

    baby duck monge

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    #2
    wow. that is extremely rough. i could understand if she had gone out and had some sort of relationship with a man (not that it would be ok, just more understandable), but killing her for being raped? :eek:

    it's a shame that this sort of idea is so ingrained in various cultures around the word. hopefully someday we will move beyond this and learn to only punish those who perpetrate crimes. :(
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    Cheese is rice...... Is there any level of barbarism that some *$^#(%&#)*^$* @**#&)% won't stoop to? People sicken me sometimes. :mad:

    And something tells me the 'stranger' part is a crock too. I bet she knew who raped her.
     
  4. Freakk123 macrumors regular

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    #4
    That's ridiculous. How could anyone be so savage, to kill someone after they had been so violated both emotionally and physically? Thats terrible. Just awful.
     
  5. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #5
    Its the dehumanization of the woman. She was merely property which had been "broken"

    Maybe the rest of the muslim world should be next. Perhaps an actual crusade might make the world a better place.

    Perhaps that is the type of over-reacting that caused a father to kill his daughter.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #6
    Yeah 'cuz all muzlims look alike to me... :rolleyes:

    Did you judge all Christians by the acts of that woman who said God told her to kill her kids my smashing their heads in with a rock? Did you advocate a jihad against the Christian faith over it?

    I didn't think so.
     
  7. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #7
    It is a very sad situation when someone would kill their own child. It seems that there was a lot of family pressure on the father. So I agree that the other 13 should also be punished. They need to change the opinions of the younger generation.
     
  8. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #8
    Wow thats just stupid.


    I mean she was raped first... and then you kill her?!?!

    Its not her fault at all!


    What is this place that this is happening on?

    Earth> :mad:
     
  9. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #9
    I thought we were already doing that.
    Also there does seem to be an increase in the demonizing of the Muslim world these days. Maybe its to take the pressure off negative publicity involving the legality of war, the locking up of people without charge, body bags, Geneva convention abuses by Allied soldiers.
     
  10. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I will shirk politeness.
    I believe that a lot of cultures have cultural defects and this is a prime example of it. I'm probably flame-baiting myself but I'm speaking my mind.
    It's just freaking madness.
    Of all the backwards traditions.
    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #11
    The one question I have with all this craziness is who's honor are they talking about? It shames the family that the girl was raped? :confused:

    Nothing like a supporting family that cares....what if it was one of the sons who was doing the deed instead of the girl that was the victim?

    That's just not right.....

    D :(
     
  12. Makosuke macrumors 603

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    #12
    I think mactastic and others were missing the point on this comment; Mongo was commenting that the same sort of illogical overreaction that causes a father to strangle his daughter can cause people to demonize the entire Muslim world on account of a handful of nuts or psychos.

    And Mongo's exactly right about what causes disturbing things like this to happen; in so many cultures (including European until relatively recently), women have been looked at as little more than property. You marry them into a family for political reasons, you get paid a dowry for taking them off the hands of someone else, you mutilate them to increase your social standing (foot binding = "I'm rich enough that my women don't need to work."), you get rid of them when they're broken or unnecessary (killing girl babies in China if you only get to have one kid). I don't think any culture in human history has been immune to this sort of thing, and the overall improvement in the standing of women may be the single biggest change in human civilization during the past 2000 years.

    Glad to see the Turkish government taking a strong stand on this, though. How does your family honor look when they're all in jail?
     
  13. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #13
    But why bring up the Muslim thing and in effect demonize them? Do we find it acceptable to talk about Jihads - no we don't (and rightly so). Talk of crusades isn't very different.
     
  14. Sparky's macrumors 6502a

    Sparky's

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    #14
    From our standpoint "honor killings" are barbaric, but realize that people who are brought up in certain societies that include such practices are abundant. Take for example the Samurai of Japan who commit hari-kari for "Honors' sake". Though the practice is (supposedly) outlawed it may still occur in some areas.

    And there are others:
    http://www.koreananimals.org/FOTOFOG.htm

    http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit06252001/womensociety.asp

    Obviously the "search list" could go on and on.

    Myself, brought up in a "western" society, do find many of these cultural differences appalling, and trying to "educate" these other societies may or may not be to their benefit. I feel it's up to the culture itself to try and change if they so feel the need. The Turkish government is trying as are other nations, and maybe the concept of "Human Right" just may spread. :rolleyes:

    PS to bad you didn't quote the entire article, it has now passed into "archive" and is only available to subscribers.
     
  15. avus macrumors regular

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    #15
    Are you ignorant about what actually went on inside the prison in Iraq by American and British guards? Or worse, you may be aware yet you blindly believe that they are isolated cases and they don't represent any of your culture. Well, people around the world think that the horrendous incidents represent one typical "Western" value - Double standard.
     
  16. Sparky's macrumors 6502a

    Sparky's

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    #16
    I am no more "ignorant" than you for not seeing what I was saying. Of course I'm aware of our own atrocities. I was drafted in 1969, and thank you very much lived through the Viet Nam era, and came out rather unscathed. You want to talk about how people go off the deep end? this forum isn't big enough to contain the list of issues still pending concerning "Western" atrocities. I in no way said we were "perfect" or clean of guilt ourselves. My post merely points out that what I believe to be a right moral upbringing does not teach us to commit these kinds of actions, where as the Islamic and other types of cultural beliefs teach that these actions are founded and right. This is what I disagree with. I will be the first to admit that we are just as guilty of heinous crimes against humanity as anyone. Jeffery Domer (sp) comes to mind, or the FBI raid in Waco, or the 2 guys who shot North Hollywood up with no concern for human life. As I said I could go on for a long time. I just hope you see what I really meant.
     
  17. avus macrumors regular

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    #17
    I say, and many in the world would agree, that there is a huge discrepancy between what America preaches to the world and what America actually does. The people in the world don't care about what kind of upbringings the guards had at home. They only see the American guards, wearing the uniforms you and I paid for, conducting the most horrific and inhumane acts while smiling to the camera. They only see the results and draw a conclusion that Americans are double-faced liars. I can't blame them. Remember, this horrific war crime in Iraq prisons was systematic, from the guards to the officers to the intelligence specialists, the acts were planned, executed, and encouraged. They definitely felt that they were justified to act as they please to those people, because they felt they were superior. Think about that.
     
  18. panphage macrumors 6502

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    #18
    The military operates by taking young people and convincing them that their opponents are less than human. Otherwise war would not be possible. Without demonizing the opponent, it is difficult to convince people to kill them. So how do you convince these kids that an enemy suddenly becomes human and deserves to be treated with respect just because you captured them?
     
  19. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #19
    Fair point but Bush should at least apologize (Is that the correct foreign English spelling?).
     
  20. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #20
    Apologize for what? That there are a dozen abusive guards instead of hundreds? That the wires attached to the genitals were no longer live? That only 25 people died in custody instead of hundreds?

    He said what needed to be said. That what the people did was wrong, that they would be punished and things like that are not what we do.

    When did people start apologizing for things they didn't do or cause or happened against their express wishes and intents?
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    When they are in a position of authority. With authority comes what? I know you know the answer to this.... 14 letters, starts with an 'R'.

    Why did Bill Clinton issue an apology to the interned Japanese? He didn't lock them up.

    Why do editors who's reporters falsify stories apologize and even resign when they weren't the ones commiting the offense?

    Why do parents apologize for the actions of their children?

    It all comes back to that 'R' word.... did you guess it yet?
     
  22. Mantat macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Actualy, the word mactastic is looking for doesnt start with R, it starts with a A, like in ACCOUNTABILITY. If I do a big mistake at job, my boss will be accountable for my doing. Of course she will kick my ass, still, she will have to answer to her boss, who will have to apologize up the chain of command.
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    Well, I was looking for RESPONSIBILITY, but accountability works too.
     
  24. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #24
    I'm sure the person in question will be pleased to know that the wires connected to his genitals were no longer live. And ONLY 25 people died - well thats ok then.

    Sadly more allied soldiers will die because of all this.

    My first comment in this thread was about demonizing a muslim nation (that ironically is pro western) and now because of the actions of a few soldiers its a western country that is being demonized. Not very nice feeling is it?
     
  25. pyroteknik macrumors newbie

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    #25
    ya... because the super great crusades are only one of the biggest atrocities ever committed in the history of the world.

    As a syrian christian, I can gladly say that this kind of honor killing crap doesnt go on anywhere in syria. I firmly believe that ANY government that makes OR made its laws based solely on religion should be reprimanded.

    Like it or not, many islamic clerics and sheikhs have little or no respect for women. when this young girl was raped, her family saw it as someone raping them, and they needed to "destroy the bridge allowing their family to be raped" As strange as it sounds, thats how it is.

    I know im probably going to get emails from devout muslims defending their leaders but look... ive read the quran, bible and torah; ive studied 4 major religions.. and lets not forget that I grew up in not only the same country as these people, but in the same village and on the same street.
     

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