UK Airline Islamaphobia

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ZoomZoomZoom, Aug 21, 2006.

  1. ZoomZoomZoom macrumors 6502a

    ZoomZoomZoom

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    #1
    http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/20/monarch.passengers/index.html

    Outrageous. What'll be next? I was kidding in my other post when I said that airlines would have to get rid of people in order to be completely terrorist-free, but it's scary to see it actually happen with profiling. If I'm not having a good day, and walk on an airplane, are they going to throw me off for looking like a suspicious North Korean spy? (I'm not Korean, but most non-Asians can't differentiate between the Asian races.)
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #2
    Totally outrageous, it makes me ashamed to be British. I assume they are getting upgraded to 1st class to fly with later.;)
     
  3. redAPPLE macrumors 68030

    redAPPLE

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    #3
    this is a serious problem. and i believe the only group of people, who could stop this are the ones that does the "scaring".

    i would greatly appreciate it if the muslims (e.g. in britain) stand up and try to help fight these people, that plan attacks. this is one way they would be respected again.

    unfortunately, i haven't seen any movement in the muslim front. or am i mistaken?
     
  4. FleurDuMal macrumors 68000

    FleurDuMal

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    #4
    When I heard about this yesterday it really did send a shiver down my spine. It's symbolic of every prejudice that is being teased out of white British society by the post-9/11 mentality. When your average shades and sandals holiday makers are too frightened to board a plane because of the presence of muslims (suspicious behaviour my backside), it is the strongest possible signal that the British government need to rethink their language, their strategies and their alleigances in this 'War On Terror'. This incident indicates that our actions are being too easily misinterpreted as a war on Islam.

    To compound the problem, the notion of Britain being engaged in a war on Islam only goes to feed and re-inforce the vicious extremist ideologies that the international community is combating.
     
  5. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #5
    Ah, but you don't even have to be muslim – just being Asian is apparently enough to get you chucked off a flight. :rolleyes:

    I'm with you on that shiver.
     
  6. FleurDuMal macrumors 68000

    FleurDuMal

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    #6
    I agree with the premise that citizens of a democratic society have a duty to act with respect to those rights if they wish to enjoy them. However, I've never really understood the demand made of the British Muslim community that they 'help fight the terrorists'. In what way are they to aid this 'war'? Some people seem to harbour the illusion that everyone within a tightly-knitted muslim community knows those who advocate the use of terrorist tactics to revenge their grievances. Although not being part of a muslim community, I doubt this is true. When the identities of the London bombers were revealed, the general reaction of the community from which they hailed from (Beeston, in Leeds) appeared to be shock and disbelief. The only ones who appeared to know of the plot were those involved in the plot itself, not everyone who went to the same mosque or school, or lived on the same street as those men.

    What worries me is that when people say the muslim community should do more to fight terrorism, they're implicitly saying that the muslim grievance against recent (and not so recent) Western atrocities in the Middle-East are not legitimate concerns, and if they are to do the decent thing and help fight the people who want to kill us in our planes, busses and tube trains, they must relinquish their grievances. This is effectively what Tony Blair said a couple of months ago - that the grievances of the terrorists are not legitimate and are part of the ideology of terrorism. That's rubbish. I and many other non-muslims share the grievances of the terrorists with regards to our actions in Iraq and at home. But that's not the ideology of terrorism. The ideology of terrorism is killing innocent life and attempting to harbour fear in order to achieve its political aims.

    As long as the muslim community continues to express their revulsion to the actions of the British and American governments in a way which has respect for human rights which we hold dear (primarily, respect for human life), then we should be happy for them to express their grievances, regardless of how extreme. Fighting terrorism should not involve telling muslims that their grievances are dangerious and unwelcome. That will only fuel further atrocities.
     
  7. MOFS macrumors 65816

    MOFS

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    #7
    Actually I think that they mean that Muslims should be more proactive in stamping out terrorism. As far as I can tell, this means they should be wary of any suspicious activities. Now, what with the authorities being seemingly inapproachable to Muslims because of the perception that all Muslims are perceived to be terrorists, you can see there's a problem.:eek: My feeling is that the contrast between "no more asylum seekers/ immigrants" and the "war on terror" (seemingly against only Islamic states) messages against the wish for a multicultural society is disillusioning too many people.
     
  8. Queso macrumors G4

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    #8
    There was an interview with a couple who had been on the plane on the TV news this morning. When asked how the men were behaving suspiciously they answered "They were wearing heavy clothing when everyone else was in shorts and flip-flops, and they were speaking a language that could have been Arabic". The couple then went on to further justify their racism with the phrase "People were scared".

    It sounds to me like people weren't scared at all, but hysterical, and the witchhunt against all muslims that the media has been wanting is now happening. What I find really scary is that the captain of the plane pandered to the prejudice rather than telling these idiots to abandon their Daily Mail worldview or walk home.

    Mind you. Monarch Airlines. Need I say more? :rolleyes:
     
  9. MOFS macrumors 65816

    MOFS

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    #9
    It is getting ridiculous, and frightening. I was watching Richard & Judy, with this guy advocating that they should check mainly people looking like terrorists. The example he gave was why check the women with baby in a pram? Or Judy? To me, his implication was clear: he wanted to search Asian people with beards.:mad:
     
  10. FleurDuMal macrumors 68000

    FleurDuMal

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    #10
    I also heard that they were 'checking their watches a lot'.

    I would like to ridicule the evidence upon which the passengers of that plane made their judgements, but it seems such evidence was no less credible than that which has been used by the British and American administrations to conclude that Suddam Hussein had WMD's and that two seemingly normal muslim guys from Forest Gate were dangerous terrorists :rolleyes:
     
  11. FleurDuMal macrumors 68000

    FleurDuMal

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    #11
    Glenda Jackson wrote a very good piece for the Guardian about not only the moral failures, but the complete inadequacy of racial profiling as a security measure: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1851899,00.html
     
  12. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #12
    It wouldn't be the first time I awoke in a cold sweat after a nightmare about travelling on a package holiday flight with Sun readers.*pinches self* Holy **** this actually happened .:eek:
     
  13. Maxiseller macrumors 6502a

    Maxiseller

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    #13
    The argument isn't really about profiling; its about the fact that to profile is seen as racist.

    To be clear, I am not racist - but would I be happier knowing that security has the powers to search anybody they want without being branded "racist" because they searched 7 asian men, and only 3 white men? Of Course. Political correctness being a massive blundering slurge of red tape really does prevent logical course of action from being carried out.

    One of you mentioned that a poor justification was "that he was heard speaking arabic". Why should he? We're living in a country that is England. Speaks the English language. There is nothing more infuriating than when a client (usually a family) comes into my office, talks to me in english and then talks in their native toungue amongst each other - when ALL can talk english. Why is this seen as appropriate behaviour?

    I have been searched at Airports many a time, and never see it as a problem. If you have nothing to hide, and want to live safely then whether you're asian or not shouldn't make a difference.
     
  14. FleurDuMal macrumors 68000

    FleurDuMal

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    #14
    So, say you're doing some travelling with a friend, and you're in France/Senegal/Algeria/French-Canada, and you are both by chance fluent in French because you both learnt it at school, would you be conducting all your conversations with each other in French, even though all through your life you've spoken to each other in English?!?

    What about if you're on a plane in England and two Irish men are speaking Gaelic to each other. Should they be made to speak English?

    Just because you find it infuriating that families speak in their mother tongue to each other in front of you, it is absolutely no reason to regard them as a security threat.
     
  15. Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    How is it logical to pander to racism, which is all profiling is? The whole idea disgusts me and it's only going to further alienate young muslims who are angry enough that we are still illegally occupying a middle eastern oil rich country.

    You want logic? Bring the troops home. That's logical.
     
  16. ZoomZoomZoom thread starter macrumors 6502a

    ZoomZoomZoom

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    #16
    I agree, them speaking in Arabic is no justification. I live in America, but I commonly speak in Chinese. It's perfectly natural, and I would still naturally speak it even if there were some political problems between the US and China, because it's my native language.

    No matter how anyone looks at the situation, it's a case of some serious racial profiling. Even though official word seems to be coming out that it was a mistake, it's troubling that those two men were forced off in the first place.
     
  17. mox358 macrumors 6502

    mox358

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    #17
    I don't agree with this, but I'm not going to be blind and say that its unbelievable that it's happening. This could happen to any group of people. Its unfortunate, but its human nature to be scared when you see the events that are happening around us.

    If Americans were flying into say France or Germany and hijacking planes, planning to detonate explosives onboard, and making tapes that CNN was showing on the air where Americans threaten the way of life of another country you can bet that English speaking white guys would be getting the shaft just like these two did.

    People tend to lump races together - its just what they do. Every member of a race is in a way a representative of their race. Its just sad that other members of their race are committing horrible crimes and killing innocent people. If they want to be upset about this, don't blame the people who are scared when they board a plane - they just want to get their family home safely. Blame the people who are hi-jacking planes and planting bombs. They're the ones who are making everyone on edge about being on the same flight as a "Islamic guy" or an "asian guy". The other people in their race are being really sh**** representatives right now and its not the fault of these guys.

    Remember in school when someone broke something and the teacher didn't know who was guilty and therefore everyone in the class was punished. This scenario is similar, although I know its a long shot comparison. Thats the best way I can explain my thoughts on it.
     
  18. Uma888 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    The media plays a big part in this...........:rolleyes:
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    As Europeans we are statistically more likely to be run over by a bus than die in a terrorist attack, so by the media's logic we should all run away screaming when the number 243 to Waterloo approaches.

    After all, you can't be too careful with these busses around. Potentially they are all killers :p
     
  20. MOFS macrumors 65816

    MOFS

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    #20
    I remember seeing a quote that even now, you are more likely to kill yourself than a terrorist kill you.
     
  21. Maxiseller macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I once had a gran that was petrified of flying. "No" she'd say, "I'm not about to get on a plane and risk my life...god will take me when he thinks it is time" After explaining that planes are the safest form of transport around, and pilots are trained for many years she'd counterargue "Yes, but I'm not about to die because god thinks it's the pilots turn to go"

    Now, ok - light humor indeed - but if people were less affraid to stand up and say "Here is the demographic that is likely to cause harm...don't be affraid to target those who look suspicious" I can't see there being a problem. People do it everyday regardless of ethnic origin. As somebody mentioned; teachers that think a particular gang of boys are naughty constantly shout at them for things that aren't their fault; it's human nature.

    There may be more chance of me killing myself than dying in a terrorist attack, but try telling that to the families of people (many young) who hadn't had a chance to MAKE decisions for themselves.
     
  22. Maxiseller macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    I wasn't talking security. I was talking politeness from my perspective. I was talking about the fact we live in...erm, England; not anywhere else. It is one thing being a tourist speaking in the only tougue you know...it is another being able to speak the native language and sticking two fingers up at it and being rude. The answer in my case is that I make a point of saying "This is my office and you will speak English or go elsewhere".

    Either way, the main point is that I'm not affraid to talk about these issues that people feel strongly about. Gosh, if I go to france I really try hard to speak french. I really do. It's polite.

    Profiling isn't about making people feel unwelcome; it's also not about iraq; it's about keeping families safe. I KNOW that not all muslims are terrorists; but a heck of a lot of terrorists are muslims.
     
  23. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #23
    i don't want to get into profiling but the fact that this was a flight from Malaga to Manchester tells me everything I need to know about the majority of the passengers. If they weren't happy to fly then the airline should have asked them to leave not throw some innocent people off. This does not bode well.
     
  24. Maxiseller macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Well said.
     
  25. Queso macrumors G4

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    #25
    Except Maxiseller you are talking about the tiniest, tiniest percentage of a large population. We really need to stop this ***** and grow up a bit. Treating people as a "potential" terrorist because of their skin colour is nothing more than pandering to the tabloids whilst alienating multiple ethnic groups. If there is reliable intelligence to suggest someone is a suspect, then fair enough, but to start a policy of presuming guilt until proven otherwise takes us back to the early 1980s and will end up with the same riots the policy caused back then.

    When I'm down in Spain I will frequently fall back into English when talking to my partner. Some things are simply easier to communicate in your mother tongue. It isn't done out of rudeness, ibut the need to effectively get what you mean across in a way you know will be understood.
     

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