Umpire's imperfect call

[Gregg2]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=10811370

I say the Commish should step in and declare that game a perfect game. There was no need to record a fourth out in the top of the 9th.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Am I missing something? You said the Commish should step in and declare it a perfect game. Are they not? I read this:

Armando Galarraga squeezed the ball in his mitt, stepped on first base with his right foot and was ready to celebrate the first perfect game in Detroit Tigers' history.

What happened next will be the talk of baseball for the rest of this season and likely a lot longer.

Umpire Jim Joyce emphatically called Cleveland's Jason Donald safe and a chorus of groans and boos echoed in Comerica Park.

Then Joyce emphatically said he was wrong and later, in tears, hugged Galarraga and apologized.

"It was the biggest call of my career, and I kicked the (stuff) out of it," Joyce said, looking and sounding distraught as he paced in the umpires' locker room. "I just cost that kid a perfect game."

"I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay," he said after the Tigers' 3-0 win.

 

[yg17]

Am I missing something? You said the Commish should step in and declare it a perfect game. Are they not? I read this:

The ump said he was wrong after the game, but that doesn't change the outcome at all. Only the commish can step in and overturn that call to give him the perfect game.

 

[Tilpots]

I feel bad for both the player and the ump. The ump made a mistake, he admitted it, and now, unfortunately, it's over.

Baseball hasn't adopted instant replay for these types of calls. Maybe this incident will help them push it thru. I'm not for adding time to an already long game, but I'd rather see a fair and accurate game.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=10811370

I say the Commish should step in and declare that game a perfect game. There was no need to record a fourth out in the top of the 9th.

Personally I do not feel that Commish should step in and do that for the sole reason is that it would open up a entire huge can of worms of people going threw other old game tapes and try to have those things changed.

The human element is part of the game. Also baseball games are long enough as they are. Image if we started having replays on how long it would go.

 

[yg17]

I feel bad for both the player and the ump. The ump made a mistake, he admitted it, and now, unfortunately, it's over.

Baseball hasn't adopted instant replay for these types of calls. Maybe this incident will help them push it thru. I'm not for adding time to an already long game, but I'd rather see a fair and accurate game.

It wouldn't really add time. Managers and umpires already spend a few minutes arguing over close calls like this. If that time is spent reviewing the replay instead, they don't add any time to the game and they get the call right. It's a win-win.

Give managers one or two replays they get to use each game, and they can use them for just about any play except balls and strikes. An instant review doesn't take more than a couple minutes in hockey, it shouldn't take any longer in baseball either. So in a worst case scenaro, with each team using both of their reviews, you might add 10 minutes to the length of the game. It's worth it to get it right.

 

[rdowns]

Was nice to see the umpire admit his mistake.

Sucks for this kid. The commissioner needs to do the right thing here.

 

[Tilpots]

It wouldn't really add time. Managers and umpires already spend a few minutes arguing over close calls like this. If that time is spent reviewing the replay instead, they don't add any time to the game and they get the call right. It's a win-win.

Give managers one or two replays they get to use each game, and they can use them for just about any play except balls and strikes. An instant review doesn't take more than a couple minutes in hockey, it shouldn't take any longer in baseball either. So in a worst case scenaro, with each team using both of their reviews, you might add 10 minutes to the length of the game. It's worth it to get it right.

I like the idea of only getting a couple of challenges a game, just like in football. I also agree it shouldn't be used for balls and strikes. The human element, as mentioned above, is certainly part of the game. Plus you get three strikes or four balls to get a chance, one bad call doesn't ruin your at bat. But if mistakes of this magnitude can be prevented, they should be.

 

[yg17]

Personally I do not feel that Commish should step in and do that for the sole reason is that it would open up a entire huge can of worms of people going threw other old game tapes and try to have those things changed.

The human element is part of the game. Also baseball games are long enough as they are. Image if we started having replays on how long it would go.

I don't think it would open up a can of worms. There have been bad calls in the past, but rarely can the outcome of the game be guaranteed if the right call was made. Case in point, the 1985 World Series game 6, bottom of the 9th inning, and Denkinger's bad call at 1st base. Cardinals fans argue that if Denkinger had rightly called Orta out (which the replay showed he was clearly out) that the Cardinals would've gone on to win that game and the World Series, since the Cardinals were up in the series 3-2 and had the lead in the bottom of the 9th. If that call was right, rather than 1 on and no one out (which led to the Royals scoring and winning, and winning game 7), it would've been 1 out and no one on. But there's still no guarantee that the Cardinals would've closed out the 9th and won it. Bad call, and it probably changed the outcome, but no guarantee that if the right call was made, the Cardinals would've won, since it was not the 3rd out.

However, in this case, you have the 27th batter of a perfect game. The outcome of the game if the right call is made is guaranteed. Runner out, Galarraga gets the perfect game. It's not even really changing the outcome of the game. Detroit still won it. It would have no effect on standings. The only thing that would change is that Donald's batting average would drop a miniscule amount and Galarraga would get the perfect game that he pitched counted in the record books.

 

[harrisbn]

Compromise - Make it a 'no-hitter'

I agree that reversing the safe call would open up a can of worms for future blown calls. Imagine a World Series game that is decided at home plate on a blown call. If the commissioner reverses this call then how could he not reverse that one? My idea would be to make this game a no-hitter and charge the umpire with an 'error'! There were no hits in the game so that part is technically correct and the pitcher at least gets his name in the record books. Everyone is partially happy all around and the umpire takes the blame.

 

[iOrlando]

the problem here is not really the call itself but the situation the call took place in.

i bet that many similar calls are made all the time, involving the manager running on the field complaining..blah blah blah.

but since the perfect game was on-line, now it matters so much more.

looking at the replay, it really was close. people make it seem like it was so far away a baby could make the call a mile away.

I think the problem is the ref forgot the situation he was in. 9th inning 2 outs perfect game on the line. He just thought of it as a normal call, and made the call, normally if he was wrong, oh well. who cares.

I think most "normal" umpires, knowing it was the last play of the game, would have just called the guy out (even if he wasnt out).

 

[rdowns]

Precedent

There is precedent for the Commissioner's Office to decide what is, and isn't, a perfect game. On September 4, 1991, a so-called "Statistical Accuracy Committee" ruled that the game would only official recognize as perfect games, ones in which pitchers retired 27 (or more) consecutive batters and completed the game without a batter reaching first base. The ruling wiped off the books the 1959 game in which Harvey Haddix of Pittsburgh pitched 12 perfect innings, only to lose the game to Milwaukee on a base hit. It also erased the 1917 game in which then-pitcher Babe Ruth of the Boston Red Sox had walked the lead off batter, then been ejected by the umpire for arguing the call. Reliever Ernie Shore entered the game with none out and that runner on first, who was promptly caught stealing. Shore then retired the 26 batters he faced, and had, at the time of the Commissioner's Office ruling, been credited with a perfect game for more than 74 years. 48 more no-hit games were also erased by the re-definition of the rules.

http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/06/sources_commissioners_office_m.html

 

[Unspeaked]

Precedent

Changing rules is one thing. Overturning a call the day after a game ended is another.

I think the call should stand, but should lead the way towards expanded use of reply in baseball (which is coming sooner or later, anyway).

I feel bad for the kid, but that's life.

 

[Tilpots]

Precedent

Interesting read. Anybody know if the Commish has issued a statement on this incident?

 

[MacNut]

Changing rules is one thing. Overturning a call the day after a game ended is another.

I think the call should stand, but should lead the way towards expanded use of reply in baseball (which is coming sooner or later, anyway).

I feel bad for the kid, but that's life.

The offical scorer had 24 hours to reverse a decision. I belive the Commissioner has the same time frame to reverse a call.

Interesting read. Anybody know if the Commish has issued a statement on this incident?

They have not yet decided if they will review it.

 

[obeygiant]

Go Tigers!

 

[Gregg2]

It wouldn't really add time. Managers and umpires already spend a few minutes arguing over close calls like this. If that time is spent reviewing the replay instead, they don't add any time to the game and they get the call right. It's a win-win.

Give managers one or two replays they get to use each game, and they can use them for just about any play except balls and strikes.

1. The arguing could still ensue after the replay review.
2. What if, in this case, the 1 or 2 "red flags" had already been thrown?

in this case, you have the 27th batter of a perfect game. The outcome of the game if the right call is made is guaranteed. Runner out, Galarraga gets the perfect game. It's not even really changing the outcome of the game. Detroit still won it. It would have no effect on standings. The only thing that would change is that Donald's batting average would drop a miniscule amount and Galarraga would get the perfect game that he pitched counted in the record books.

Plus the pitcher gets a put out, and the 1Bman gets an assist, pitcher's BA against improves. And the final out / at bat never happened. That batter's BA improves, pitcher's BA against drops, no assist, no put out, no pitches. What else did I miss?

the problem here is not really the call itself but the situation the call took place in.

looking at the replay, it really was close. people make it seem like it was so far away a baby could make the call a mile away.

I think the problem is the ref forgot the situation he was in. 9th inning 2 outs perfect game on the line. He just thought of it as a normal call, and made the call, normally if he was wrong, oh well. who cares.

I think most "normal" umpires, knowing it was the last play of the game, would have just called the guy out (even if he wasnt out).

1st statement: It's both.
It really wasn't a "bang-bang" play. That kind of close play (tie goes to the runner) cannot usually be discerned from a video replay. The umpire has to also rely on his hearing to call it.
There should not be, and I'll argue that there are not, "situational calls" by an umpire. And, most, if not all umpires, really do care about getting the calls right. Did you hear what the ump said to the media, and to the pitcher?

Interesting read. Anybody know if the Commish has issued a statement on this incident?

Not as of this posting.

The offical scorer had 24 hours to reverse a decision. I belive the Commissioner has the same time frame to reverse a call.

Then he's running out of time. tick tick tick...

 

[MacNut]

Selig's statement

06/03/2010 2:43 PM ET
Major League Baseball statement

"First, on behalf of Major League Baseball, I congratulate Armando Galarraga on a remarkable pitching performance. All of us who love the game appreciate the historic nature of his effort last night.

"The dignity and class of the entire Detroit Tigers organization under such circumstances were truly admirable and embodied good sportsmanship of the highest order. Armando and Detroit manager Jim Leyland are to be commended for their handling of a very difficult situation. I also applaud the courage of umpire Jim Joyce to address this unfortunate situation honestly and directly. Jim's candor illustrates why he has earned the respect of on-field personnel throughout his accomplished career in the Major Leagues since 1989.

"As Jim Joyce said in his postgame comments, there is no dispute that last night's game should have ended differently. While the human element has always been an integral part of baseball, it is vital that mistakes on the field be addressed. Given last night's call and other recent events, I will examine our umpiring system, the expanded use of instant replay and all other related features. Before I announce any decisions, I will consult with all appropriate parties, including our two unions and the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which consists of field managers, general managers, club owners and presidents."

 

[yg17]

Selig's statement

In other words: "The umpire royally screwed up, the game should have ended differently, now I have to consult with others on what to do for long enough for the media to forget about it and let MLB and me off the hook"

 

[Tilpots]

In other words: "The umpire royally screwed up, the game should have ended differently, now I have to consult with others on what to do for long enough for the media to forget about it and let MLB and me off the hook"

Ha. Actually, this is great for the game of baseball. When was the last time the Today show did a story about the MLB? The sportsmanship in this case is unbelievable. It's a great story, with a, for now, unhappy ending. In this particular case bad press = good press.

 

[rdowns]

**** Mlb.

Glad I gave up on the game in the strike years.

 

[RawBert]

Just heard that the ump's call will not be reversed.

 

[renewed]

Just heard that the ump's call will not be reversed.

That's what SportsCenter is reporting.

 

[admyrick]

i read on espn.com last night that the tigers pitcher was one of the few players who actually did not go up to the ump after the game. thats sportsmanship for you. i mean jim leyland got tossed and miguel cabrera was still arguing with the ump for awhile afterward.

ill give props to the ump for recognizing that he screwed the call up but if you watch the video, it seems to me like he shows a little hesitation before making the call.

i feel bad for the pitcher. so close

 

[Tilpots]

So mush for all the goodwill they built up today.