United Likely to Terminate Pension Plans

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #1
    link

     
  2. vwcruisn macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Location:
    Santa Monica, Ca
    #2

    I just used all my united frequent flyer miles and went to hawaii :D

    I didnt want to risk losing them with all of uniteds troubles right now.
     
  3. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #3
    Well, fwiw...

    my mother, who worked as a flight-attendant/stewardess for United for 14 years (60's and 70's), lost her pension a year before she was of eligible age. Just *poof* gone...in the "restructuring" of the previous United bail-out. Paid money in for a decade-and-a-half, didn't receive jack...I asked her how they could do that to her and her contemporaries, some of whom worked for much longer (30+ years)...she just shrugged...

    Anecdotal, I admit, but seems criminal to me...
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #4
    People are living too long. They're (we're) collecting too much money. Nationwide, pensions are underfunded to the tune of some $450 billion. "Unfunded liability". Social Insecurity is in even worse shape.

    Datum: For every car FoMoCo sells, $1,300 goes into the pension fund. I'd bet it's not enough...Regardless, the rising costs of funding pensions and of providing health insurance (ignoring other regulatory costs) are primary reasons for the low profitability of US-based corporations.

    Check out Gary North's website. His "Reality Check" Issue 370 for August 17, 2004, speaks to this very issue of pension funds. The numbers are there as to return on investment in order that any pension fund be self-sustaining. Reality is, as usual, much less optimistic than those who've set up the funds, insofar as annual percentage growth rate.

    'Rat
     
  5. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    Denver
    #5
    I agree with blackfox, I don't see how this isn't criminal. If one party breaks a contract, isn't that illegal? If United goes out of business, isn't that the free market at work? Maybe such a thing would allow the other airlines to take up the slack and make their own pension contributions.

    By the way Desertrat, I like your complaint. "People are living too long." :) It's not the corporation's fault for negotiating poorly, or not planning sufficiently for the future, it's those darn senior citizens that just won't croak! :p Now, that may not have been your intention when posting, but it was pretty amusing.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #6
    Is that the fault of the people who worked for those pension funds under what turn out to be false pretenses? If I promise to pay someone money and I can't come up with it when the time comes, what happens to little old me?
     
  7. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #7
    that's rhetorical right?...

    If not, if I am following correctly...it means you are f***ed.
     
  8. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #8
    Thanatoast, in the early daze of Social Security, us Old Farts collected for some three to five years, on average--or so I've read, but disremember the source. Anyhow, multitudes of Gray Panthers are well up into their eighties and nineties--which means lots of nursing home support costs from Medicaid. The same problem exists for corporations as well as for the US government...

    mac, it's called "bankruptcy", as in certain airlines and other corporations. The only way an airline can stay solvent is to raise fares and freight rates. If other airlines play cut-throat and don't raise their own fares, insolvency occurs. The other airlines face the same problem, of course, but they all hope they can get enough share of the business of the failed airline that they can keep on going.

    For a while.

    And then fuel costs go up some more...

    (Somebody once asked why the CEO of an airline got a $9 million income, when the company had lost $100 million. "He cut our losses from a billion down to a hundred million, so we gave him one percent of the savings.") Just thought I'd throw that in there...

    :), 'Rat
     

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