Update on Russian hostage situation

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by jsw, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #1
    Full link here.

    Terrorism is, of course, horrible in any case. But terrorism involving - targeting - small children is especially repugnant.
     
  2. belair macrumors 6502

    belair

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    #2
    just saw the update on CNN

    Man that has gone terribly wrong.
    The suspect way over 100 dead people now.

    What is wrong with the people doing something like this? Taking children as hostages and the bluntely shooting them.

    I just cant describe the felling. Whta do these people expect?

    My thoughts go to the families of the killed children.
     
  3. Tiauguinho macrumors 6502a

    Tiauguinho

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    #3
    I've been following this since morning (was at the cafe drinking my morning coffee when this happened).

    7 hours and 31 minutes passed, and my anger doesnt keep rising. It's completly crazy... poor children, parents, relatives, people... To all of them I wish them the best out of this situation.
     
  4. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #4
    That is a very sad situation. My prayers go out to the children and their families. Sounds like it was unavoidable when the terrorists started firing shots. Those that survive also need our prayers. I hope that a resolution will come soon.
     
  5. Tiauguinho macrumors 6502a

    Tiauguinho

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    #5
    Wdlove,


    Agree with you completly. Latest reports point that one of the bombs that was taped to the ceiling fell on the ground, therefore accidentally exploded, which ignited the whole incident.

    Who in their right god damn sense chases children to shoot them?! That initial attack, after the truck went to pick up the corpses, where the hostages started to ran away and the militants chasing, was a complete chaos. Its... i dont even know how to describe it!

    It's believed that some more children are being held hostages by the remaining militants. I hope that all of them come out alive. The death toll keeps on rising.

    Everytime I that i go to the living room and turn on the TV and see the images... It's a situation that is going to change the way that the "Europeans" think about terrorism. But i surely do hope that it never happens again, although i expect it to happen...
     
  6. jsw thread starter Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #7
    I do not and cannot understand how anyone could do this, much less do so as a group, intentionally. The terrorists deserve whatever happens to them. I don't like to hate people, but I don't consider those who shoot children to be "people". May they all die horrible deaths.
     
  7. belair macrumors 6502

    belair

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    #8
    Stop the hatered

    Apparently the whole town has gone mad. Everybody who has a gun is out there trying to help kill the hostage takers. I also heard that one of the hostage takers who got arrested by the army was linched on the street by the inhabitants of the town.

    I Understand your point of vue. These people don't deserve to live. Let's not put more oil on the burning fire. I just hope this situations unfolds as quick as possible.

    Stop the hatered. As Marvin Gaye put it "Save the children"
    Peace
     
  8. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #9
    I wouldn't agree that they've gone mad. This is a perfectly natural reaction to someone who's killed your children. It's appalling what the terrorists have done.

    I wish this wasn't human nature, but unfortunately, it is. It's something we must constantly work to overcome.
     
  9. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #10
    I don't want to come over as high-and-mighty on this, but it seems typical of Russian Alphas. They're extremely effective killers and therefore a formidable force, but history is showing that their training just doesn't lend itself to hostage situations. I can't help but think SAS or Deltas would have done a much better job.

    They knew there were booby traps but they took the risk anyway, and it didn't pay off. In the Russians' own words "the storm wasn't planned". When going against such a large number of terrorists who have no regard for life (their own or others), it's...shocking.

    The photos show them all bunched together behind a tank (?!) with "shoot me" written all over their faces, and a "sniper" is sitting down propping his elbows on his knees to support his rifle. What's that?

    AppleMatt
     
  10. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #11
    Wow this thread's moving fast.

    Then it's only going to get worse :( Emotions won't save lives, training will. I hope they are restrained and let the military handle the situation.

    Chaos. Exactly.

    AppleMatt
     
  11. jsw thread starter Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #12
    I think of myself as pretty reasonable and certainly law-abiding. I try to see everyone's side. I tend to be fairly understanding, even if I disagree with them.

    That said, if a group did this to the school my daughter attends, and if she or other children in the area were killed, I would do everything in my power to kill those that did it.

    I'm not saying this is a sane or rational or defensible reaction. But if my daughter were one of those lying dead on a stretcher, I would not spend much time deciding if my acts were rational.

    On the other hand, even in that situation, my hatred would be reserved for those who committed the acts, not others in another country or area who happened to share their national, religious, or ethnic affiliations.
     
  12. Tiauguinho macrumors 6502a

    Tiauguinho

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    #13
    The Alpha's werent even there yet. It was the "normal" special forces that countered the slaughter. Besides all the chaos, they did a good job in trying to save as many people as possible from those sons of a b*tch.
     
  13. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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  14. belair macrumors 6502

    belair

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    #15

    I am afraid to admit that you are right wormunger. This is human nature at its worst. I just can't believe how a man can take his rifle and shoot a child in the head. I just can't.

    All this fighting in the world is really getting to me. Why can't we get along?
     
  15. jsw thread starter Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #16
    Also agreed. Once I'd calmed down - which might take a long time - I'd then question why the situation got out of control. I would expect trained forces to handle the situation more rationally. On the other hand, children were at risk, and that would tend to make it more difficult for most people, trained or not, to function completely rationally.

    What I wonder is just how the terrorists ever thought they could get away. And, if they knew they couldn't, those kids were dead anyway, one way or another.
     
  16. belair macrumors 6502

    belair

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    #17
    I think those russian forces did not know what they were doing. After hell broke loose all they could do is try to save as many as they could, unfortunately too late. I think american, or german or whatever specially trained forces could have handled the situation with more calm and organistation. And you have to remember how Putin solved the hostage situation in the Moscau theatre two years ago. He is not a man who backs down before Tchetchen terrorit's or is afraid of casualties.

    I think it is a very complex situation they have over there and I hope this does not start a bigger armed conflict in the region.
     
  17. iGav macrumors G3

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    #18
    Did you see the interview (I think it was on Sky) this evening with one of the SAS that stormed the Iranian Embassy back in 1980, he just couldn't believe how the Russians had handled it... the total lack of organisation for one.
     
  18. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #19
    Interesting you post that, I just watched BBC interview ex-SAS (not one of the "famous" ones) and he also completely condemned it. He said it was "unthinkable" they didn't form a plan the minute the got there, and he'd just listen to one of the Russian commanders admit they had no plans at all, they just had SF sitting there.

    His suggestions were in the first minute of arriving covertly deploy troops in the woods behind the school, and in minute 2 fill 4 helicopters with troops and place them 500 meters ready for a top-down assault.

    He also said he was amazed Alphas were "getting ready", because as we know in Britain there's always teams on 1-minute standby 24/7, 365. Without exception.

    I also watched the filming of the conclusion, there were kids running everywhere. I mean absolutely in every conceivable direction.

    And that village a couple of years before that, 100's of hostages died there too after Special Forces stormed the building.

    AppleMatt
     
  19. Tiauguinho macrumors 6502a

    Tiauguinho

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    #20
    Things are finally over. European news channels already display "edited" content, besides being top story, it's not getting the coverage that I hope it would take. It's a situation that in my understanding demands discussion, serious discussion, to what we, as citizens, as humans, face and will face in a near future by these radicals who dont have any mercy to shoot children by their back while they run for their lives.

    What I've seen during that live footage, what I've seen on those faces, those expressions, will for sure not fade away. My thoughts tonight will be with those who've been through this, to who lived it, to who died from it. My thoughts will be with the ones that lost their beloved, their sons, their daughters... and specially with all those children that lost the opoortunity to be, to grow up, to smile, to live.


    May their lost opportunity enlighten the one we have now.
     
  20. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #21
    ???
    Why was my post saying "it's over :)" deleted?
    There's nothing controversial about that. It's factual, the siege had finished. Mods, explanation please.

    AppleMatt
     
  21. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #22
    It's still there....
     
  22. daxdagr8t macrumors member

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    #23
    I dont want to be flamed or anything but lets look at the other side, the side of "terrorist." They are Chechnyans(dont know the correct spelling), they call themselves "freedom fighters." They are muslims, and have been in Russian rule ever since Russia was the USSR and they want independence but Russia wont give it to them.Why I dont really know.Do u guys remember the incident when the Russian gas the Chechnya?Thousands died in that incident.Hundreds more suffer from human rights violaton upto now.Im not saying that the rebels acts was justified, im just implying to look at the other side of the issue.
     
  23. Dros macrumors 6502

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    #24
    I'm well aware of the long-standing desire of many of the Chechen people for independence. However, I can't think of any fact about that situation which would make me think about the people that took and killed the hostages/children in a different way. What does looking at the other side of the issue do for you?
     
  24. belair macrumors 6502

    belair

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    #25
    I think its spelled "Chechens". I for one have decided to get more information about the political backround of the Tchetchens.

    I know that the russian governement has killed a lot of civilians during the last ten years and that the Techtens are desperate to get their independance. Killng children wont solve the problem tough. I also understand that there is religious believes involved in the fighting. I know that there are some religious people on this forum and I don't want to offend any. But people fighting other people because they think that their god is the only god just makes me sick. Why are there so many missinterpretations of religious writings? Isn't it all about tolerance, understanding and compassion?

    …
     

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