Upgrading a Sawtooth Processer?

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by Kevin83165, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. Kevin83165 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Location:
    Illinois
    #1
    Would buying a 1 gig Processer upgrade from OWC for my aging 450 MHz Sawtooth really help much? It costs $200, but my Sawtooth is lagging along. (I upped the ram to 684) but it is slow slower than mollases.

    What does anyone think?
     
  2. SuperCompu2 macrumors 6502a

    SuperCompu2

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    MA
    #2
    didn't i just read another thread from you about the exact same thing?

    be patient, answers will come
     
  3. Kevin83165 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #3
    I knew someone would nark me off it was just a matter of time :D . I saw that old post quickly going down the list and felt I should have posted it here instead.
     
  4. Bobdude161 macrumors 65816

    Bobdude161

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    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    N'Albany, Indiana
    #4
    I think it's worth it. I've seriously spent about $600 on my sawtooth (not including 200 dollar sawtooth) with cpu and video upgrades, HDs, fan modifications, peripherals and such. Do I regret it? No. Buying upgrades are like monthly payments. If you can't wait long enough to save up for a MacIntel, an upgrade is one way to subside your need for speed.

    I have a 7455B processor upgrade clocked at 1.5 Ghz with 2 MB L3 cache from Giga Designs for $275 the 7455B is a great processor, if you can save up that extra $75 it would be the most worthwhile upgrade for your Sawtooth.
     
  5. dpaanlka macrumors 601

    dpaanlka

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    Nov 16, 2004
    Location:
    Illinois
    #5
    I had a 2ghz G4, a Radeon 9800, and a gig of ram in my Sawtooth. It was a great system.
     
  6. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #6
    Well, one of my clients just gave me a G4/400 a few weeks ago. I put a G4/1.2 in it, an nVidia GeForce2 MX graphics card (32 MB of VRAM) and up the memory to 640 MB (it'll be at 1280 MB in about a week).

    Out of curiosity I used Xbench on it before and after the current upgrades (and how it compared to my Beige G3)...
    • Sawtooth, G4 @ 400 MHz, 1 MB of L2 cache, ATI Rage 128 (16 MB of VRAM) in AGP x2 slot.... 16.47
    • Sawtooth, G4 @ 1.2 GHz, 256k of L3 and 2 MB of L3 cache, nVidia GeForce2 MX (32 MB of VRAM) in AGP x2 slot.... 39.96
    • Beige G3, G4 at 533 MHz, 1 Mb of L2 cache, ATI Radeon 7000 (32 MB of VRAM), UltraATA66 card.... 14.88
    Seems like a nice little system to me.

    My G4 upgrade was about $200 and the GeForce2 MX card was around $20. It already had a 60 GB drive and I put in another 30 GB drive. When I'm done with the memory upgrade it'll add on another $70 or so.
     
  7. Kevin83165 thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Location:
    Illinois
    #7
    Sounds like a good move then. I do not use this Sawtooth for any sort of graphics anything,,,, games whatever. So a video card upgrade will not help me correct? I mean it won't really make the system itself any faster would it? Or am I missing out on something else here?

    And can I just use PC133 ram I find around for sale everywhere? Or do I have to stick with one cetain "kind"?

    Thanks for all the replies everyone!
     
  8. Bobdude161 macrumors 65816

    Bobdude161

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    Mar 12, 2006
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    #8
    The only thing the graphics could do for ya is make the screen savers look better and make parts of the GUI smoother. But still, a Rage 128 with (i think) 32 mb of RAM that just seems like it's crippling the Sawtooth. But I'm not sure tho, maybe someone else can give their input on that one.

    You can use certain types of 168-pin SDRAM 133/100 Mhz RAM. People say Kingston works some say Crucial. I have neither, I have GeeDom :p. But it gave me tons of kernal panics in 10.3.9, but since i've upgraded to Tiger, there have been no problems. Saying is, you get what you pay for. Go to RAMSeeker.com they have tons of selection. I bought from Omni Technologies @ RamSeeker I would steer clear from Omni if you don't want any surprises. I would get 1 GB total, either with one stick or multiple ones.
     
  9. Makosuke macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    The Cool Part of CA, USA
    #9
    As said, the graphics card would "smooth out" the UI a little bit, but it's not going to make a huge difference if you're not doing anything graphical. It'll feel nicer with the upgrade, but I don't think it's really necessary (I can't say I noticed a big difference between a 128 and an MX2 in non-graphical use, although the MX2 will help iPhoto a bit).

    Most PC133 RAM will work--I've put some funky stuff in while playing "musical RAM" at work, and it was generally fine. If you're buying new (as opposed to a junk-store RAM bin or the like), though, it's probably worth the couple extra bucks to get something with a lifetime warranty and a guarantee it'll work. I like DMS for budget RAM, but everybody has a favorite.
     
  10. dpaanlka macrumors 601

    dpaanlka

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    Nov 16, 2004
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    Illinois
    #10
    If you're graphics card doesn't support Quartz Extreme, definitely get a newer one that does. That will make a big difference.
     
  11. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #11
    Apple only sold Rage 128 (and Rage 128 Pro) cards with 16 MB of VRAM in PowerMacs.



    As for what you get... processor wise, the GeForce2 MX isn't really faster than the Rage 128 it replaced in my system... and if I was only going to be displaying content at 1024x768, there would have been no reason to change cards. The reason I did was because I'll be connected to a much higher resolution display when I'm done. In that case, the 32 MB of VRAM will make a bigger difference over the 16 MB of the original card.

    The more pixels you want your card to push out to the display, the more memory it'll need to do this smoothly.
     
  12. rjkells macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    #12
    Highly Recommended

    I upgraded my 400MHz to a 1.2Ghz with Sonnet and the speed increase was very noticeable. I also found it critical to get a 32MB video card to run any modern Apple video software.
     
  13. zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

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    Mar 13, 2005
    #13
    the geforce2 supports quartz extreme. the rage 128 does not..
     
  14. Mavimao macrumors 6502a

    Mavimao

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    Lyon, France
    #14
    I put a Radeon 9000 pro with 128 megs of vram in my sawtooth. Works like a charm - I can even do spanning monitors with an ADC -> VGA adaptor. I would definitely look into an upgrade for your graphics card.
     
  15. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #15
    The 1.2GHz upgrade will make a big difference, and will be able to take advantage of faster video cards if you decide to upgrade further.
     
  16. Forced Perfect macrumors 6502

    Forced Perfect

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    #16

    That's what I did. I have a Radeon 9000 Pro (64 MB though) in my Sawtooth. Worth every penny.
     
  17. Old Mac Geezer macrumors member

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    Mar 9, 2007
    #17
    What you really need is a Radeon 9700 or 9800 video card. That will speed you up tremendously and give Quartz Extreme and Core Image compatibility and can be bought for less than $100 on ebay if you are lucky. I would pass up on the 9600 or flashed 9500's as they usually have only 64mb RAM and 4 pixel pipes, so they are SLOW even at higher clock rates but could still be a good buy if you don't need much in terms of power. They will also give you QE and CI capability. Be careful you don't get a G5 only card, though, as there are some out there. The 9800 chipset is the fastest you can run in a 2x AGP slot. Try upgrading the video first before you spend a lot on a CPU upgrade. If you're still running any video card older than Radeon 9500-9800 you need to upgrade it anyway for Core Image. You may be able to delay that CPU upgrade a while longer if the speed increase makes you happy. I'm doing the same as you are, looking at upgrading the CPU in my DA 533 but my Rage video card is a big bottleneck, so I'm replacing that first to see how much faster it is. I also need more RAM, but you have that covered already. If I'm still not happy with it, I'm planning on getting a 7455 based 1.53 ghz upgrade. They run about the same as a 1.8ghz 7447A and rival a 2.0ghz 7447A in some areas and applications that utilize the Level 3 cache blaze, but they are cheaper than a 7447A upgrade. Nice deal when you can find them.
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #18
    I bought on of the 64MB Radeon 9600s from OWC back when they were selling them, and it provided very good performance for casual gaming, even with games like Call of Duty. It runs much cooler than the 9800 and is silent, which is an advantage. For Core Image compatibility and non-gaming stuff it's excellentBut for more serious gaming you need a Radeon 9800 Pro or better.

    I skipped the 9800 Pro and jumped up to a flashed GeForce 6800GT (see link in sig for details). It runs pretty hot but provides all the performance I coud ever need from a video card, with 256MB VRAM and dual DVI outputs. Unfortunately, it won't run on a Sawtooth; I have it running at AGP 4x on a Digital Audio and the Sawtooth will only do AGP 2x, and the card won't run at that speed.
     
  19. Old Mac Geezer macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    #19
    The only thing is when you are talking about a 2X or 4X AGP slot, faster video cards than a 9800 can bottleneck as they are originally 8x cards. I have a Compaq W4000 workstation that only has a 4x AGP slot on it and my X1600 Pro AGP doesn't run as fast in 3DMark as similar systems with a 8x AGP slot. I can only assume that the X1600 maxes the bandwith on the 4x slot. An X1950 Pro or 7800GS would probably be a waste for me. Newer cards on a slower slot only make sense if they have additional features you think you might need which was why I got the X1600 to replace my 9500. Shader Model 3.0, Avivo and H.264 were more important to me in that decision than anything else, including speed and the fact that the card has 512mb memory.
     
  20. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #20
    What you say is essentially true, but in my experience (and that of others running similar cards), a 4X AGP slot can push more pixels than just about any G4 CPU can handle. I tried the Doom 3 demo on. Early G5 towers run faster with games than fast G4s (with 4X slots) more because their CPU and especially FSB speeds are higher, not because of the faster AGP bus.

    The 2X AGP slot can benefit from a faster card than a 9800, but it's a diminishing returns thing i.e. a 4X or 8X slot will keep showing improvements while the 2X gets saturated sooner. Video games and cards are only just now saturating the 8X AGP bus, so the 4X is still very usable with most of the games out there if you have a fast card like a GeForce 6800-class or Radeon X800-class card or better.

    Like you said though, part of the reason to upgrade is not for pure speed but additional features like Shader Model 3 or Core Image compatibility (a real issue for G4 owners).
     
  21. disconap macrumors 68000

    disconap

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #21
    In response to the original poster, yes it is worth it, but I say up your RAM first, especially if running OSX. The faster processor will make a difference (my dual 1.3gHz G4 w/ 2g RAM keeps up pretty well with my dual 2.0 G5 w/ 2.5g RAM), but OSX is a RAM hog, and with the Sawtooth a lot of the bottlenecking actually happens in the RAM swapping, not the processor.

    That said, 1.0gHz is a decent upgrade, but for the price I'd suggest saving up a little more and investing in something either faster or dual.
     
  22. Xylene macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    #22
    I have a 1.5 GHz FastMac G4 upgrade in my Gigabit Ethernet (similar machine) and a 9800 Pro.

    You can use just about any PC100 in a Sawtooth/Gigabit Ethernet box, the bus is only 100 MHz.
     

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