US Arabs 'fear for their families'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Zaid, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. Zaid macrumors 6502

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    #1
    BBC - US Arabs 'fear for their families'

    From the article:

    Has terrorrism just become an excuse for biggots and racists to be openly hostile to arabs and muslims in the US?

    If an arab or a muslim was verbally assalted, how seriously would the police consider the matter?
     
  2. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #2
    why am i suddenly reminded of that movie ?

    it is sad but i am not surprised...
     
  3. Zaid thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Yeh thought of that too when i read the article.
     
  4. Bobcat37 macrumors member

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    #4
    You know, I'm NOT excusing the behavior, I think it is dispicable, but if you look at both sides of the coins, Christians are often treated the same way in Arab coutries. In fact, sometimes instead of merely being harassed, Christians are often killed....

    Of course, in America we treasure freedom of religion, so really we should be setting an example for the rest of the world.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

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    #5
    Indeed. As with Human Rights.
     
  6. Zaid thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Really?; do you have some evidence of to back up your claim that this is common behaviour in the arab world.

    Christian communities have co-existed and continue to co-exist with muslim majorities throughout the arab world and have done so since the begining of islam.

    Some arab countries (notably egypt, iraq and syria as well as the palestinians) have very sizable christian communities and these communities have co-existed for over a 1000 years.

    The fact that muslim countries have not spoken out against what is happening in Sudan is absolutely abhorant, but this doesn't mean that this kind of behaviour is common practice in the arab world.

    Do some research before you make blanket statments of condemnation

    and BTW, i wouldn't consider america to be the shining example to the world that you clearly consider it to be.
     
  7. Colirio macrumors newbie

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    #7
    Interestingly enough, the leaders of my religion made an announcement about this when the War on Terror was originally announced. In a nutshell, they said that we need to be careful to put the blame where it is due (on the extremists and terrorists) and to NOT allow ourselves to blame muslims in general. Seems like that warning was good foresight on their part.
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

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    #8
    Aren't you forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT country?
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Does it begin with an "S"?


    ...and end with "-udan"...good point.

    Still, either way, arguing lowest-common-denominators is never very satisfying...
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Actually, it begins with an I and ends with a Q. Sudan should probably be in the list as well, granted, but when did Sudan last have a Christian Foreign Minister? There has been a Christian community in Iraq since St Thomas, which makes it one of the oldest Christian churches in the world.
     
  11. Zaid thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Um, no i mentioned iraq, right after egypt and just before syria ;)
    skunk, me thinks that prescription needs checking matey :)
    Don't forget the churches of Antioch (syria) and Alexandria (Coptic Church in Egypt) were around at about the same time that the church of byzantium (greek orthodox) and the church of rome were founded.

    The christian communities in Egypt and syria and iraq all predate islam.

    mentioned sudan as well fox, (in that it is abhorrent that muslim countries haven't strongly condemned the attrocities taking place there)
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    Whoops! :eek:

    The glasses or the drugs? Probably both, actually! :rolleyes:
     
  13. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #13
    On a related note, there was an article in the NYT about the Census Bureau giving detailed information to the Dept. of Homeland Security about the population statistics of Arab-Americans, including detailed information on how many people of Arab backgrounds live in certain ZIP codes, sorted by country of origin.

    Spokespeople for the Customs and border protection division of HS, defend the info as used for education for travelers and not for law enforcement. Still, many critics say the information is overly detailed for such a usage, since from a traveler standpoint the use of Arabic or English is the only important distinction needed.

    Some see shades of when the Census Bureau used similar information against Japanese-Americans leading up till their internment during WWII.

    Take from this what you will...
     
  14. Colirio macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Well, to a point, as a matter of national security we HAD to gather certain information by means of profiling. If a man accused of beating someone is described as a white male wearing a top hat and a cape, you don't stop an African man on the corner that's wearing jeans and a t-shirt as matching the description. Profiling to a degree is unavoidable.

    However, there is the degree where it passes to harrassment. That is what needs to be evaluated and we need to put more clearly defined limits into place to govern it.
     
  15. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #15
    Fair enough, but that can often be a open-ended excuse...considering half my family was interned in the camps in WWII, you might understand why I am a little sensitive to this issue...
     
  16. Bobcat37 macrumors member

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    #16

    Yipes, calm down... obviously I hit a cord.

    My comment was mainly directed at the atrocities being commited in the Sudan, I guess I should have clarified, please accept my apology (since it seems I offended you) But, that still doesn't mean that Christians aren't killed (killed -> persecuted) daily in other Arab/Muslim countries, but obviously the rate of occurance can vary drastically between countries.

    I realize my statement came off as a pretty big "blanket" but it wasn't meant to be, again, sorry, not the best wording.


    Uhhhh, good for you?
     
  17. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #17
    I'd like to see the facts to back that statement up.

    Many Christian minority communities live peacefully in Arab lands, and I'd like to know if this "killed daily" thing is true or something you pulled out of a hat. Palestine, for example, has a significant percentage of Christians.
     
  18. Bobcat37 macrumors member

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    #18
    Ay, demanding aren't we... Ok, I would like to clarify and replace to phrase "killed daily" to "persecuted daily", still have problems? Well I have some facts for this at least (finding statistics on the number of Christians killed in certain countries throughout the year was getting too difficult, thus the reason for the retraction).

    Souce http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/16/210223.shtml

    Killed daily? Maybe not, depends on the country... (I'd say we could at least agree that Christians are more than likely killed daily in Sudan) Persecuted daily in other countries? I'd say so (anyway, the origin of this topic was about Muslims being persecuted in America, not killed, no?)
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #19
    Well, you're the one who brought up the killing. Anyway, anywhere you mix religions or races there is going to be persecution. It would take a fool to attempt to argue that blacks are not still persecuted in our nation.

    While I feel compassion for any group that is persecuted, I don't hold any one group to a higher sympathetic standard (i.e. just because I'm Catholic doesn't mean I howl when Catholics are targeted and shrug when Muslims are).
     
  20. Bobcat37 macrumors member

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    #20
    I agree pseudobrit, which is why when this topic was started I just wanted everyone to think about both sides of the coin (if you wish to look at it that way). Like I said, the fact that Muslims are persecuted here by people is horrible, but no worse, than how Christians are persecuted abroad.

    Persecution is persecution is wrong.
     
  21. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #21
    Ah, but I think we can agree that we as a nation should not be settling for equality with Sri Lanka and Indonesia in terms of how we treat religious minorities, no?

    After all, how can we expect lesser nations to embrace change when we ourselves cannot enact it?
     
  22. Zaid thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #22
    really??, i'm not exactly certain how anyone was supposed to come to that interpretation; lets look at what you actually said:
    how is anyone supposed to infer that you meant sudan, when you never even mentioned the place, and instead issued a blanket condemnation of all arab countries?

    me thinks that this is nothing more than someone changing their argument whenever challenged because it was never properly thought through

    Mate you didn't offend me, i just become pretty passionate when ever i see ill-thought out and silly generalisations masquerading as considered opinion or fact.

    You do realise that killed and persecuted are two very different things?

    The rise of islamic fundementalism (which is quite a complex phenomenon) within the arab world has meant that the harrassment and discrimination against christian comunities has increased significantly. This is indeed reprehensible. And needs to be pointed out where it occurs. Saudi Arabia being one of the major culprits in this regard.

    This most often occurs when you have repressive of dictatorial goverments attempting to win the favour of the muslim majority who have been increasingly bombarded with a fundamentalist outlook.

    Outside the arab world, in indonesia, pograms against christians were carried out by fundamentalist muslims during the chaos that followed the collapse of the central govt a few yrs ago.

    And outside the muslim world, china is of course a huge violater of religious freedoms.

    Try worst wording possible if that was not your intent. Anyway, if you wanted to point out that religious discrimination or harrassment occurs elsewhere then i'd agree with that.

    but getting back to the origional topic,
    It may occur elsewhere, but none of those countries professes to enshrine religious freedom or pretends to be a shining becon of the way things should be.

    ??? you find it inexplicable that someone wouldn't find the us to be the best example for every country in the world to follow?
     

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