US cars versus European/Japense Imports

Discussion in 'Community' started by carbonmotion, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. carbonmotion macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #1
    I've been driving a leased US VW Jetta VR6 for two years...I used to drive a leased Golf GTI two years ago before the lease ran out. I think it's really less about quality issue between american cars and external competiters because both my Jetta has had no issues in the toll of two years while the Golf GTI was a POS. If it were not for the warenty I would be poor right now.

    I think we should judge each car by their quality record recorded by consumer agencies that do such things ...only then will people realize that forigen car companies only have a good reputation, in reality their build quality varie from model to model just like their cars.

    Personally I bought VWs because I think they look great and feels great to me... and I can appreciate the artistic way that they are crafted. For $26,230, I only got a 2.8 liter 200hp VR6 engine...which gets around 21mpg locally (european cars are overated in their gas frugality). In fact I think I'm going back to american made cars when my lease comes up (in 8 month) because in two years time american automakers have realized the need for adding style in to their design and have accomplished such. There is no way im going to lease another VW because they are definately not worth they money you pay for. The new Jetta VR 6 does not wow me, in fact it feels like anyother car and the interior that looked good in 2002 when comparabed to american car interiors of that time, but now there are so many better options for a more reasonable price. The next lease that I will get will most probably be the Mazada 6s ...for a little less 25,000 I could lease a car with a 220 hp engine and a damn better looking exterior and interior -not the same plain jane VW Jetta interior (they aren't fooling anyone with those new visual cue...) Or a turbo charged Saab 9-3 Aero for only $21,000 (my dad gets A-Plan Discount because he works at GM)

    Do you guys have anyother Great US cars to recommend? I was tricked by the rice culture propaganda in highschool in to buying a euro car along with many of my friends who also bought japense or european cars before realizing that you're not getting more for the same money. Infact the quality is the same on some models, better on some and inferior on others when compared to american cars. So, recommendations anyone?
     
  2. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #2
    no real recommendations sorry.

    but i do stand behind the toyota tt mkIV supra... and its not because of FF... i was doing so before.




    hope you find the american car you are looking for.


    maybe.. the new mustang would be a recommendation?
     
  3. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #3
    I don't like sports cars, but even if I did, mustangs are ugly and the build quality is very poor. If I were in the market for a sports car I would probably get a Pontiac GTO or a 2005 Mustang. But I haul friends and equipment around way too much to be a satisfied with a 2-door coupe. Actually, I even considered buying a small SUV like a Land Rover Freelander/Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute but they're not gas efficent (17/21 Local/Highway) and the thought of doing that much damage to the enviroment killed the idea immediately.
     
  4. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #4
    Oops, I suck I didnt see the word "new" in your post... Sorry man... forgive my incompetance.
     
  5. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #5
    no problem man.

    so basically you had a sports car and now you are not into that any more. so this is important in trying to recommend an american car for you.

    you said that in the next lease you are going to get a mazda 6? im confused with that stamement... since you are looking for an american non sports car.
     
  6. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #6
    um... Jetta isnt a sports car. I used to own a GTI but that was in high school The car I have now is a 4dr Jetta VR6. I dont want a car like the mustang or the GTO because they lacked the back seats for my things/friends and the insurance for a 19 year old with a mustang is atrocious. Um yeah i consider Mazada 6 to be a sedan
     
  7. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #7
    Re: US cars versus European/Japense Imports

    "the rice culture"??

    does not compute
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #8
    I'm stickin' to VW but I'm a TDI man.

    Try getting 50mpg for a year. I did and I can't go back now, so the only choices for me are VW TDIs or hybrids.

    And seeing how hybrids are gutless wheezing battery-laden trouble from the word "go," you can guess what I'm staying with.

    Maybe if Ford would release the Focus TDCi I'd switch.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Re: Re: US cars versus European/Japense Imports

    http://www.riceboypage.com/
     
  10. Opteron macrumors 6502

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    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    South Australia
    #10
    GM (Chevie/Holden's) engine technology is stuck back in the late 70's early, 80's. The Holden Commodore (their family car in Australia) is the only 12 valve pushrod V6 on the Australian market. There V8 is also suffering from "low tech" using a 350 cu/in push rod V8. Ford now offers a 5.4 L Quad cam, and a DOC4.0L straight 6, both of which are far superior to what GM is ofering in Australia.

    However the real technology is in Japan. Turbos, 8,000RPM red lines, Rotors (Rx-8)

    Europe Has the WRC, and the Super car makers, using cutting edge tech.

    And the US is stuck with "LOW Tech push rods"

    If you want an economical car get a Citreon Xeara, Peguet 206, Mitsubishi Lancia, Subaru Impreza. These are all cars that have seen much development due to there use in the WRC.

    Also a nissan Pulsa, or a Madaz (mazda) 2 or 3 would be a great car.
     
  11. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #11

    jetta isnt a sports car? how you figure?

    your going for a mazda yet you dont want a jap car? i dont get it.

    sorry.
     
  12. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #12


    Um, we have the Mitsubishi Lancia and Subaru Impreza...those cars are for guys who like to rice stuff. I shop at express for crying out loud... ideally I'd lease a Caddy CTS (best car ever made, beats Mercede's pants off) but my job doesn't pay "that" much even with my dad's special incentive lease plan. We dont get Citreon Xeara and Peguet 206 here. and wait... All alumium pushrod v8s are sweet as hell, so I dont know what you're talking about... its not technologically behind, its just a different design philosophy. Alot of German/Japanese cars are turbo charged to make them comparable to American horsepower...this means the car will have to be treated with care ...like premium fuel and synthetic oil changes... and the turbos will last around 100k miles before dying... so, if you drive the car for 5 years, you're basically going to be garenteed to be in need of a big service...where as I can drive a pushrod for 5 years and never amount to kind of a gigantic maintance costs. besides, just look at the 05 Corevette, it runs on the LS2 which was appluaded by motor trend as the best engine every built in that price range. So please do not insult the technical advancements of the american auto industry.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    No way are the Jetta or GTI sports cars. Sports cars:

    BMW Z4
    MB SLK
    Mazda Miata
    Porsche Boxster
    Porsche 911 series
    Lamborghini Murcielago
    Lamborghini Gallardo
    Acura NSX
    Nissan Z
    Ford GT40
    Jaguar XK
    (maybe) Ford Mustang
    Ferrari 360
    Ferrari 550, or anything else wearing the Cavallino Rampante
    Chevrolet Corvette
    Dodge Viper


    Even some of these are a little suspect; the line between sports car and Grand Touring is easy to blur. Audi TT is certainly a GT, Nissan Z is, well... kinda borderline.

    It's like porn and obscenity. You can't define it but you know it when you see it. Name a car and I can tell you what category it's in.

    Technically it's a Ford ;)
     
  14. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #14
    the Mazada 6 was designed in California and manufactured in Tennesse and is owned by Ford Motors. My uncle was transferred from the Ford 500 design team to the Mazda 6 design team in Cali to head up the pre-production quality control tests... All the up comming ford cars, the Ford 500 and the Mercury Sentinel will use the chassis of the Mazda 6. It is called Ford's Universial Chassis System.
     
  15. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #15
    i like to rice stuff for sure

    but then that cheesy bean and rice burrito was only temporary at taco bell. sucks! burrito just isn't as good without the rice
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    IIRC, the F body was one of Consumer Report's most warned against vehicles for engine problems.

    My TDI is turbo'd and does take synthetic oil (Mobil Delvac 1 -- I do the changes myself) but only needs serviced every 10,000 miles, and the oil is clean for much longer (it's been tested clean at 20k) and folks have gone well over 200,000 without blowing the turbo. Plus the fuel tends to be pretty cheap most times of the year. Not like I care when I only fill up once every other week.
     
  17. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #17


    Did not come across it, I'll look into it. The old Corvette engine (LS1) was good as hell.
    Um..TDI are anemic... like less then 100 hourspowers? 0-60mph in 10+ seconds? I'd rather spend a little more gas to feel less annoyed on highways.

    and Diesel is a big pulloter , much more so then Gasoline.
     
  18. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #18
    90hp, 150ft/lb at the wheel all available from 1900 rpm. The torque curve on this thing is amazing. It matches just about every car in its class stoplight to stoplight, accelerates very well on the highway, will cruise at 110mph for roughly 600 miles nonstop (when you need to refuel).

    And "spend a little more" on gas is no way indicitive of the situation. I drive to Pittsburgh on the occasional Saturday (about 460 miles round trip) and last time I had a 2.0l Jetta loaner (the thriftiest gas burner) and was pissed at having to fill up twice during my trip. Usually I can go there and back and still have enough fuel to last until Thursday or so. THAT's performance.

    And it was no quicker than my TDI, either. But it was louder at cruising speed (the gearing on the TDI is much lower, so the engine isn't droning at 3500rpm on the bypass)

    Not true. Modern diesels are cleaner in most every respect. It mostly depends on the quality of the fuel. Once ULSD is available here and particulate filters become the norm on diesels, there's no reasons not to consider one.
     
  19. carbonmotion thread starter macrumors 6502a

    carbonmotion

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    #19
    1 There are no 2.0L jJettas... 1.8T or the VR6...neither are 2liters. My friend has a TDI and while it feels ok ...the acceleration is just so bad 0-60 in like 10-12 seconds. With my VR6, the road noise was unacceptable, the shocks were too stiff and the steering was somewhat overly sensitive. The body looks ok, but i hasent really changed much for years... over all for 25 grand i kinda expect more. But yeah, the TDI is cool if your claims of low pullution is true. I dunno, i want an american though... i dont know why i'm feeling this way, being a liberal and all ...I mean my friend jokes that if I keep going down this "american" car path I will end up with a F250 with a big confederate flag on the hood.... I don't think that will happen... I just think that now that america is finally making competative quality cars, I should support my country's innovations and try to disregard the "forgien is better false paradigm"
     
  20. jeffy.dee-lux macrumors 6502a

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    montreal
    #20
    hahaha, i like how that guy who made the list of sports cars included the mazda miata and said maybe to the mustang...
    the current mustang (if you haven't yet, check out the 2005 model) can be bought with up to 390 hp for less than the price of a corvette. The new mustang gt comes with 300hp for about $25K. To me, that's a nicely accessible sports car.
    The miata is accessible and cute, but comes with i think 140hp, which even for a car that small, ain't really that much, at least not to get it onto a list with by my count 7 400+hp cars. But I think mazdaspeed is finally gettin their hands on this little guy, so maybe things'll change.

    and don't say gt40 or you'll get sued by some company in cincinatti.... ford was gonna name their 500hp remake of the lemans dominating racer the gt40, like the original, but would've had to pay this company $40M for the name that just didn't get trademarked back in the 60s. so now its just the ford GT.

    Anyways, as far as non sports cars go.... that mazda6 is really well regarded by automotive journalists, i've read really good reviews, and it really does look great. If you want a true american car (ford only owns 33% of mazda), ford, as someone said, is gonna be building a couple cars off of that platform, as well as the volvo s80/xc90 platform. The futura, based on the 6, should be showin up at some auto show or another this year, coming out for sale some time next year.

    oh yeah, and if you're into the escape/tribute/freelander, there's gonna be a 40mpg hybrid version of the escape, getting equal performance to the v6 model. That's coming out later this year i think. And toyota;s making a hybrid highlander too, this thing'll get about 40hp more than the current model, while also getting better mileage. Hybrid cars don't necessarily have to be associated with a compromise in performance. Electric motors get crazy low end torque, the new prius gets 295lb-ft at just over 0rpm, making for great acceleration off the line. But wait, american, right, i got side tracked....
    The ford freestyle coming out in the fall is pretty cool, wagon/suv crossover type thing, a bit bigger than the escape.

    GM's just pumped out a bunch of new models, but i don't really go for any of them, they're all pretty ugly in my eye, except of course the corvette, and maybe the GTO. The cobalt, the cavalier replacement looks alright, haven't heard anything about it though. The ford focus is getting a bit of a makeover, including improvement of the interior build quality and so forth.
    Chrysler's new 300C/dodge magnum thing is pretty interesting, nice to get back to RWD, but these things are quite boxey.
    I've always prefered ford just cause that's what i grew up with (yeah crown vic wagon! 5.0 v8!), but now i can honestly say i'm not very impressed with either GM or chrysler, well, with the cars anyways, although dodge really did mangle the durango and dakota in my opinion...
    Personally, i'd wait to see what this futura thing is gonna be like, looks like it could be something good, especially after hearing so much good about the mazda6. My dream car, however, would be a 2005 mustang gt with a huge electric motor and battery sitting in the backseat to compliment the 300hp V8, recapture some of that braking energy and cut down on idling and so forth. Maybe i can get toyota and ford to team up and pop one of them synergy drive systems in there. I've always loved the mustang, but could never justify having one myself, i like my fresh air too much.
     
  21. jeffy.dee-lux macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    The ford 500 and mercury (montego i think you mean) are based on the volvo s80 platform. The futura and the just recently named mercury montclair will be based on the 6. Both these models are supposedly gonna be introduced at the new york auto show in april.
     
  22. jeffy.dee-lux macrumors 6502a

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    #22
  23. jeffy.dee-lux macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    ok ok, THIS'll be the last one. It's just cause i noticed that that last link seems to contradict what i was saying about the 500/montego being based on the volvo s80 and not the mazda6.

    well this link
    http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreview.cfm?ReviewID=47
    and this month's motor trend both say the 500/montego and the freestyle are based on the volvo developed P2 platform upon which both the s80 and xc90 are built. So i'm guessin that first link is either outdated or just plain wrong.... or maybe these are all just variations on the same platform. Either way, the mazda6 and the volvo s80 are both really good cars, so i think ford's in business.
     
  24. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #24
    Not necessarily. The Mitsubishi Lancer (Lancia was a Italian company that also did WRC back in the day. Ever hear of the Stratos?) is a decent car by itself, and if you go for the Evo, get ready for some fun :cool:. As for the Impreza, that's also quite a fun car to drive, the WRX probably a bit more, and the STi, well, it can go head to head with the Evo :)
    Best car ever made? I'd like to know what you based that on :rolleyes:
    You're right, it's very hard to get new Citroëns and Puegots in the US.
    Each design has its strengths. Pushrods allow for a lower hood for front engined cars, but I have yet to see a pushrod engine with a variable valve timing system.
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    You're wrong.

    Sorry, but I know my VWs. Look it up; I'm right.

    Usually whoever I get stuck behind while merging from an onramp doesn't accelerate as fast as I do/can. As I said, acceleration feels the same with the base 2.0 motor.

    You bought a premium sporty compact car with the only available V6 in its class. You can always talk the price down. I did for my car.

    It hasn't changed much for years because its at the end of its product cycle. The New Jettas ("A5" chassis) should be out later this year. The New Golf is already being built.

    Half the greenhouse gas emissions is no joke. And it's getting better every year when the fuel's up to snuff. There's a 150BHP (near 300ft/lb torque IIRC) version of the TDI out in Europe. It'd embarass your VR6 and still return 40+mpg.

    There's nothing quite like getting 600 miles out of a 14 gallon tank -- that's how I measure performance right now. With fuel prices not coming down ever again to 1998 levels, I'm just not keen on driving a car that can't return more than 40mpg.

    I don't worry about who makes the car. Regardless of where final assembly is, the parts and components come from around the globe. Your car was built in Mexico, for example. Mine was built in Brasil, while the engine came from Germany and the transmission from Argentina. My '94 Jetta was built in Mexico from a good percentage of US- and Canadian-made parts.

    We truly live in a world market where Toyotas, Mazdas and Hondas are built in the US, Chevys are built in Canada, Fords are designed in England and built in Mexico and Cadillacs are designed and built in Germany.

    Again, don't worry about who makes it or where it's "made," just worry about who's giving you the best bang for your buck.

    Don't subsidise mediocrity.
     

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