US "Christian" Minister calls for assassination.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by diamond geezer, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. diamond geezer macrumors regular

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    #1
    Obviously if a leader is "anti-american" he must be an unpopular dictator. Reading this you'd never know that Chavez is his countrys popular choice and legally elected.

    link

     
  2. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

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    #2
    I don't understand why he wants him assasinated? Is he mad about the oil? :confused:

    Edit: Or is Pat Robertson just a crazy lunatic?
     
  3. Advance The Man macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Maybe Robertson doesn't like the fact Chavez is Catholic?
    :)
     
  4. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #4
    As a conservative Christian myself, Pat Robertson often says things that I consider ridiculous. Both he and Jerry Falwell embarrass many of us. They don't seem to think before they speak many times. His views are not representative of the majority of evangelicals.
     
  5. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #5
    Except, unfortunately, he is one of the highest profile evangelicals in the US, so in that respect, he 'represents' evangelicals in the same way that Michael Moore represents labor conspiracy theorists or George Bush speaks for right wingers or so and so speaks for left-wingers...

    I mean, you're right, these people don't accurately represent us, but those on the other side tend to point to these people in that way.
     
  6. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #6
    You are undoubtedly correct about the way people are propped up as leaders of a group by the media and others. But I do wish I heard more liberals denouce what Michael Moore says the same way I just denouced what Robertson said. I'm not trying to pick a fight, maybe I'm just saying we should all be a little more ready to speak up when our "leaders" say something ridiculous.
     
  7. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #7
    I think of Michael Moore as the Rush Limbaugh of the left: entertainers with little concern for ethical, accurate portrayal of issues. It's seemed to me that Al Frankin has a little more integrity on that front than Limbaugh, but of course I can be criticized as an unfair judge. (I've also spared myself of listening to Limbaugh in recent years.)

    That said, I find Moore entertaining and, to some degree, necessary. For the kind of people who are dumb enough to be convinced by a Rush Limbaugh, the left needs a bombastic fat guy out there spinning our side. I find that justification depressing. I wish people were generally up for reasoned debate, but I'm afraid most people just aren't up for it. Lot's of people juut don't care enough.
     
  8. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #8
    Just out of curiosity, is there anyone on the liberal side who you believe should be denounced?
     
  9. ~loserman~ macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    As I have discussed in the other thread I don't understand why someone even believes him to be a "Christian" much less a "Christian leader"(a term that is anathema to me)

    Mathew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me Lord,Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Many will say... Lord,Lord did we not prophesy by thy name, cast out demons and by THY NAME do mighty works? and I will say depart from me you workers of iniquity.

    Mathew 7:18-22 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit....... Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
     
  10. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #10
    Denounced is a particularly odd word. Denouncing, it seems to me, is done by a religiously charged croud in Salem or by inquisitors in Spain. I realize it can be used in a more modern sense to mean publicly point out that something is wrong. But if you denounce someone, their entire being is wrong.

    I'm not particularly interested in denouncing anyone, even George Bush, who is about as wrong as a human being can get in my book. I'm interested in publically pointing out that people are wrong _about_ things they have said, not that they themselves are wrong in a more general, moral sense.

    So, in that sense, sure, I'll point out if left wingers say or do things that I don't agree with. But I'm not particularly interested in putting any of them on a stake.
     
  11. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #11
    I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt because I don't know him or his heart. I have no way of knowing what he is like apart from the universally unflattering picture of him we get from the media. I disagree with many statements he makes, but I can't say what the man is personally like.
     
  12. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #12
    But these guys ARE REPRESENTATIVE of the Moral Majority Religious Right Wing http://mediamatters.org/items/200411240001 Their faces and sound bites appear daily on a national and global scale. That's just part of the issue. Not only is a public comment like this beyond intelligent, sound utterance, it can and probably will endanger lives and further alienate the Venezuelan people against anyone remotely connected with the U.S. and/or guilty by association.
    X
     
  13. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #13
    Examples?
     
  14. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #14
    That's only because they make good news headlines, not because they have a large amount of popular support. I guarantee there are many people evangelicals would elect before Falwell or Robertson as a spokesperson if they could.

    For instance, read David Brooks' NY Times op/ed called "Who Is John Stott" Unfortunately, i think its only avaiable to paid subscribers to their website.
     
  15. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #15
    OK. But next time I challenge you on something, you have to bite. :)

    Jebus. I don't know. I disagree with the US democratic leaders who agreed with the premise for starting the Iraq war, but I don't consider the democratic party to be all that left wing.

    It's hard for me to think of real answers to your question though because most of my disagreement with the left-wing is over their not being left-wing enough, which isn't what you probably want. You probably want cases in which I think the right-wing is correct. I'm a little tired right now so thinking through that loop (a specific left-wing person with whom I disagree with and take a right-wing position). Maybe later I'll come up with something. I've been working on a 40 page paper on the Russian minorities in the Baltic states all day, so US politics aren't really on my mind right now.
     
  16. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #16
    It's still common knowledge that the current President's campaign invested $$$ big time to win over the Evangelical Right http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8017004/site/newsweek/ of whom Robertson was one of the champions. What was it, 25% of the vote of Iowa for a President he won? I don't think it can be supported that he and other key, public voices are not representative of a perceived "Christian" political right in the U.S.
    X
     
  17. ~loserman~ macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    There is the "rub". We don't have to know him to know what is " in his heart"
    We only have to look at what comes out of his mouth.

    Mathew 15:18-19 But the things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness
     
  18. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #18
    I certainly enjoy when Pat Robertson wished destruction on Orlando, FL for receiving payment and flying the rainbow flags. The next week or so, we got those tornados in January 1998. That was great.
     
  19. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #19
    Being in grad school myself I understand paper exhaustion. I do wish I heard more from moderate democrats nowadays though. As a (mainstream, I think) conservative, I readily admit that there are people out there who take conservatism too far. I just wish those on the left could admit the same thing and bring the democratic party back to sanity, because it seems like the only spokespeople out there are as liberal as they can get. Just my impression...
     
  20. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #20
    But you only have a very small picture of what comes out of his mouth. Thats my point. Everybody says stupid things sometimes. Robertson seems to have a knack for saying some REALLY stupid things. But making one bad statement every few months is not enough to judge a person's character on.
     
  21. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #21
    Without the properly attached Smilie, I can't tell if you were being facetious. [​IMG]
    X
     
  22. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #22
    Yes, another ridiculous statement. And dont' forget Falwell's reason for 9/11. I can name them as well as most people. But like I said, they are not representative of most Christians. The only reason they are on the news is because of stuff like that. Even most evangelicals cringe when Falwell talks because we're afraid of what he might say.
     
  23. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #23
    I think you're painting with too broad of a brush - I can't think of too many of the regular "leftie" posters in this forum that take anything uttered by someone with a "D" after their name as the gospel truth. We're a pretty discriminating bunch and critical of rhetoric, regardless of whence it comes.

    Phrases like "bring the democratic party back to sanity" aren't really indicative of a moderate/mainstream philosophy, IMO. It's just more partisan talking points that attempt to degrade someone who disagrees with you rather than address the topic at hand.

    Which "spokespeople" are you referring to? It'd be helpful to know who you think the wackos are to tell if if we think they're out of line, too. :)
     
  24. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #24
    You mean on the right or left?

    On the right I would include Falwell and Robertson. Those are the two that stick out as being embarrassing. Others I just disagree with like Buchanan or Alan Keyes or Forbes who want to go to a flat tax. Media personalities like the libertarian radio talkers like Neil Boortz and Matt Drudge to some extent. Most of these people I agree with on somewhere between 60-90 percent of what they say, but consider too conservative.

    On the left it would be people like Moore, NARAL, Alec Baldwin, Ralph Nadar, Dean (especailly his rhetoric). I could sit here and think of some more if you need me to, but I think this should be enough for now.
     
  25. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #25
    I used to really like Nader. I read unsafe at any speed and was really impressed, finding it reasoned and detailed.

    I found him a really disappointing candidate though as he, like the rest of them, decended into political rhetoric rather than truth. All political candidates say that kind of crap that they can't possibly belieive, but is 'plausible'.

    He was really cute when he came to DC though in a way that indicated the scale of his campaign. Someone was asking a 'question' that was really a 5 minute rant about something like utility infrastructure in Southeast DC (or something obscure like that. Nader was running for president, not DC city council). And Nader just listened patiently, leaning a little on the podium. There were actually hundreds of people there, so it's not like he was listening to one person out of five or anything.
     

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