US Department of Justice unhappy with EU's Microsoft ruling

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacBytes, Mar 28, 2004.

  1. MacBytes macrumors bot

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2003
  2. simX macrumors 6502a

    simX

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    #2
    I love how the U.S. DOJ gives Microsoft a slap on the wrist, and then expects that the EU turn over and beg forgiveness from Microsoft just like they did. And then they have the nerve to say that this fine (which amounts to nothing for Microsoft) will hamper innovation in the marketplace. Give me a break!
     
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #3
    Haven't you noticed? The world is supposed to do whatever the U.S.A. wants, or at least, the current administration.
     
  4. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    Canada
    #4
    The DOJ must realise that if companies want to trade in Europe, then they damned well following EU Laws.. exactly as trading in the US or other places in the world.

    Who gives a hoot if the wimpish DOJ dislikes the ruling the EU handed out to MS..if the DOJ had got it right the first time, the EU may not have been so harsh...

    MS got what they deserved.
     
  5. Fiveos22 macrumors 65816

    Fiveos22

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    #5
    First of all this is a macintosh forum, not a political forum. Just to head off nay-sayers who will say "Microsoft is a direct competitor to Apple, thus this is an Apple issue"...no, it is not. Like it or not, Microsoft is a gigantic company that has its fingers in many more areas than combat with Apple. Therefore...if we are going to step into the political realm let me offer this...

    1) Microsoft is a large U.S. owned and largely U.S. employing company.

    2) The Department of Justice has already stepped in and scared Microsoft into changing their business practices, and continues to monitor those practices closely.

    3) Change is slow (for all you revolutionaries out there)

    4) The EU is just beginning to flex its power so that it has the same influence as a strong Federation of States, but that does not mean that they are correct by going off half cocked like they are right now.

    5) If Microsoft loses this, they will have to shell out a sizable sum of money, which will force them to tighten their belts and trim spending. This will result in further outsourcing of American jobs to India.

    Personally I hope that the Department of Justice lends Microsoft a hand in this matter. They are an American company, and in my book America comes first, not my computer. On a final note, this is not a matter of the DOJ being patsies to a big corporation. WHat was the last legislation that you heard about that was "bought and paid for" by Microsoft special interest money?
     
  6. winmacguy macrumors 68020

    winmacguy

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2003
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #6
    Fortunately Mario Monti (the EU guy heading the investigation) is an economist rather than a lawyer, so he is going to be less likely to be swayed by what ever BS the US DOJ comes up with as he investigates the economic facts surrounding the whole inquiry.
     
  7. winmacguy macrumors 68020

    winmacguy

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2003
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #7
    4) The EU is just beginning to flex its power so that it has the same influence as a strong Federation of States, but that does not mean that they are correct by going off half cocked like they are right now.

    5) If Microsoft loses this, they will have to shell out a sizable sum of money, which will force them to tighten their belts and trim spending. This will result in further outsourcing of American jobs to India.

    Personally I hope that the Department of Justice lends Microsoft a hand in this matter. They are an American company, and in my book America comes first, not my computer. On a final note, this is not a matter of the DOJ being patsies to a big corporation. WHat was the last legislation that you heard about that was "bought and paid for" by Microsoft special interest money?[/QUOTE]






    Outsourcing your work to India is not just an American phenomenon, it is and has been happening for some years now. MS itself sponsorsa whole lot of research in Hydrabad to the tune of several hundred million US dollars.

    British Airways call centres are all located in India. Because it makes good economic sense . Indians are smart effecient hard resourceful workers whose hourly rate is much less than that of a US worker in the US. It is a sign of technology in the broadband internet age.

    Many other countries out side of the US are taking over when it comes to producing CGI movies (LOTR produced in Wellington/Chicago/London) because they have the technology and the skill and the exchange rate on their side.

    if MS loses it will be the sign of a tough but fair decision based on the reality of world economics.
     
  8. simX macrumors 6502a

    simX

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    #8
    ... that does business abroad. Therefore, it should be subject to international laws. End of argument.

    Oh, yeah. Right. THAT'S a good one. Maybe you didn't hear about Microsoft being told to stop its anti-competitive business practices back in 1995. They didn't, so the DOJ stepped in to give a harsher ruling. But that all changed around when the Bush administration took over, and they rolled over to give Microsoft what they wanted.

    They didn't even have to remove/unbundle IE or WMP (so they can still exert their influence since they have 90% market share), which was the crux of the argument in the Redmond Justice case..

    Haha, that's a choice quote. It takes 9 years for a company to change its anticompetitive business practices? Give me a break!

    This is not "half cocked". This is a reasonable remedy. Microsoft got off scot free in 1995, they got off scot free with the more recent U.S. Redmond Justice Case, and now finally someone has the nerve to actually impose a hefty fine and a reasonable solution to stop Microsoft's illegal practices. But I guess that's what most of America defines as "half cocked". :rolleyes:

    Ahahahahaha. That's great. Microsoft has $54 BILLION in the bank. What's $600 million to them? If you make billions in profit, have billions in the bank, I don't think a fine of a couple hundred million is going to make Microsoft tighten it's belt.

    The DOJ has already lent a hand to Microsoft in giving them virtually no restrictions in business practices here in the U.S. despite it being convicted of an illegal monopoly. The last shady thing I remember that Microsoft paid in order to further its monopoly position (despite it not being legislation) was the tens of millions of dollars funnelled to SCO and its lawsuit fight against Linux. But oh, no, that wouldn't count at ALL... that's just all some crazy conspiracy theory! :rolleyes:
     
  9. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #9
    Yes, I see that Microsoft is scared or has been scared. :D

    They were more scared before the current administration took office in the U.S.A.

    Now, they're pretty happy with how things have turned out--in their favour.
     
  10. Fiveos22 macrumors 65816

    Fiveos22

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    #10
    Once again I'd just like to bring it to your attention that this is not a political forum...which was my first point.

    All of your responses are valid, based on your particular mindset. Being a conservative at the University of Wisconsin I've come to accept that everybody has opinions, and i contest none of yours. I just wanted to say what normally wouldn't be voiced.
     
  11. XnavxeMiyyep macrumors 65816

    XnavxeMiyyep

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Washington
    #11
    This is, however, the current events forum.

    I say, too bad for the DOJ; this is a European ruling, not an American one.
     
  12. masterthespian macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    edmonton, ab Canada
    #12
     
  13. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #13
    The US is not in charge of the EU. They have no right to tell the EU not to fine MS. They also can't complain about forcing MS to release a copy of Windows without WiMP, because the WiMPless Windows is intended only for release inside the EU.

    That's a lot of abbreviations! :eek:
     
  14. winmacguy macrumors 68020

    winmacguy

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2003
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #14
    personally I am banking on Mario Monti to come up with a fair a balanced judgement against MS which is probably a judgment and desicion that should have been handed out before 2000
    (if it all goes well) :)
     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #15
    Ok, first of all, this is a news and article discussion on a Mac based technology site. But we're free to talk about anything, provided it's on topic. And without profanity, trolling, etc. Just had to get that out of the way. You're welcome to your opinion, but we are welcome to dispute it.

    Second, that doesn't sound like an opinion. You're stating that as fact, which it is not. As far as anyone can tell, Microsoft wasn't given any substantial punishments or forced to change it's business practices at all. If it had, it wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The US dropped the ball. But that's just my opinion.

    The fine is nothing to them. I dare them to blame having to send more jobs to India. Then maybe they can be an Indian based company instead of American. :p Of course, if they still want to do business in the US (or EU, or Aus, or Asia) they'll still be held to that country's laws. Which BTW, MS has been convicted of breaking.
     
  16. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    Canada
    #16
    Troll.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #17
    the EU has 300 millions inhabitants .get over it.
    the EU isn't "the little brother of the US" like current US adminstration wants it.
    i can't remind if the US DOJ ever 'whined' because a company is juged after laws in different countries... is this normal ?
    did the european court whine when a american judge forbid VW to sell their diesel cars in 2003 ?

    actually microsoft is rather lucky:
    in worst case the fee would have gone up to 2,4 billion euros..thats |calculate| 2,9 billion dollars ...how would the DOJ react to that ? arrest the whole european court ? :rolleyes:
     
  18. Fiveos22 macrumors 65816

    Fiveos22

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    #18
    and

    Is that what you say when people have an opinion contrary to your own? Let people speak their mind.
     
  19. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #19
    Just an observation, but it seem to me that whenever threads like these get bounced over to the politics forum, they've already turned into pointless flame-fests. Another observation: if these flaming threads weren't forwarded to the political forum, then the political boards would be almost entirely free from flaming.
     
  20. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    Denver
    #20
    sorry to go off topic, but - what?
     
  21. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    Canada
    #21
    I explained myself. But unfortunately you take the quote (the first one) out of contest.

    When someone comes out with
    "America blah blah blah, how dare the EU rule lay down the law to an American company".

    It seems an obvious troll or just someone who does not understand there are laws outside the US that all companies trading in that area must abide by.




     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #22
    yeah, i've noticed that. seems like it's just a stopover before being locked or wastelanded.
     
  23. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #23
    there some judge in one of the amerikan states(doh.. don't remeber which one) which forbid VW to sell new and used cars with up to 5.000km with diesel engines but i guess that was only for period of a few months where they have to install soemthing etc. don't know exactly anymore
     
  24. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #24
    Could we ask the moderators to please skip the intermediate step?

    On the bright side, it does show up how relatively well-behaved we are in the big, bad political forum.
     

Share This Page