US superpower status challenged - Gates

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. macrumors bot

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    Category: News and Press Releases
    Link: US superpower status challenged - Gates
    Description:: Gates gave Apple Computer's iPod two thumbs up. Fresh from launching Microsoft's iPod rival Zune this week, Gates said the iPod was "phenomenal, unbelievable, fantastic"

    Posted on MacBytes.com
    Approved by Mudbug
     
  2. macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #2
    Gates sees the world as macro issues, and he's not blind. The US superpower status is ending and it's pretty obvious.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    It doesn't have to be that way.

    First, if we return to pre-9/11 attitudes about immigration, we'd be able to get the influx of talent that complements our own homegrown variety. That is the way America has always worked.

    Don't get so excited about China -- it is merely moving from being a laughingstock underachiever to being an authoritarian labor colony for the West. When 1 out of 4 people on the planet are involved, the movement seems huge. If they ever adopt real democracy, they could eventually become a true, sustainable superpower. The Soviet Union was a superpower, but its idiotic economic system made it unsustainable.

    We can be the world's only superpower and still act in a multilateral fashion. When Bill Clinton was president, we used our military to stop genocides in Bosnia and Kosovo, but we didn't pursue bin Laden fiercely enough after the embassy and Cole bombings because we didn't have enough international support. We were the moral superpower because we could project power, but we weren't an idiot, arrogant cowboy.

    We can also be the only superpower without forming an empire. History shows that empires are always doomed eventually. After 9/11, we saw an opportunistic cabal panic us into forsaking the Constitution and our tradition of civil liberties and separation of powers. (I'm talking about the neo-conservatives, not al-Qaeda.) Last Tuesday, the people spoke and I believe we will see yet another Renaissance of our American values.
     
  4. macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #4
    Empires come and go.

    The people will always be there.

    Took Britain a long time to fianally admit they where not the world powere that we were post WWII, i wonder how America will fare?

    Russia steps down, China steps up, India is thinking about it too, and Russia may step back up again.

    The wheel goes round, and nobody has used the Bomb again - thats the main thing.
     
  5. macrumors 6502a

    Lixivial

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    #5
    My response is to part of the article, but not to the headline -- as, well, the headline seems more apt for the Politics forum...

    It's strange that Gates would say that, considering his company's MSN service has since emulated MySpace with MSN Spaces, and YouTube with Soapbox (which, of course, the article mildly sat upon with one sentence).

    Other than that, I think the man is spot on with what he's said. I particularly enjoyed what he had to say about the Zune/iPod conflict. The media seems to want to portray the notion that, for one company to win, the other must lose. This doesn't have to be the case, and this isn't how Gates sees it; it may be irrelevant, as it's how Ballmer sees it, but at least Gates sees it the way it oughta be seen.
     
  6. Ugg
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    Ugg

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    #6
    China faces formidable hurdles but the inevitable outcome will be more freedom for the Chinese, not less. To think of China solely in terms of its manufacturing ability is also naive, they have the nous to see their goals through. Pandora's chinese version of the box has been opened.

    In order to prevent cowboyism, we need to always have someone other than a cowboy at the helm. Americans are partial to their less than intelligent cowboys and are likely to elect another in the future.

    Values, schmalues, when the rich control the wealth in this country, values are thrown out the window in pursuit of higher profits.
     
  7. macrumors 6502a

    Grakkle

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    #7
    I'm definitely no fan of the Republicans, but if you take an honest look at the Democrat's record it's not much better. For instance, most of the genocide in Kosovo started after the NATO intervention.

    Bill Clinton wasn't any more of a humanitarian than George Bush - he just did PR better.
     
  8. macrumors 68000

    SPUY767

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    #8

    Amen, it appears that there are those who still undertand politics.
     
  9. macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    That is such crap! Bill Clinton was and is far more of a humanitarian than George W. Bush (George H. W. Bush has surpassed his son since the tsunami). Perhaps not the humanitarian that lives up to your high, perhaps even unattainable, standards, but W. can't even hold a candle to Clinton among mortal men.

    So what you are saying is that Bush's reaction to Darfur is approximately equal to Clinton's actions in the former Yugoslavia? And you get congratulated for your "knowledge" about politics?!
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    TequilaBoobs

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    #10
    the U.S. is stronger today than any other government/empire in history.
     
  11. macrumors 65816

    iKwick7

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    #11
    Umm... I hope that's sarcasm. I'm not one for politics, but that is just a silly statement.
     
  12. macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #12
    No, its agree with us or else.

    ;)

    What good is it having an ally who practises what America preach's, cough cough (France) if they won't do what America tells them to do?

    ;)
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #13
    I'd be more interested in knowing what the U.N. is doing about Darfar. That's what they are in existence for. Do those that hate President Bush so much want him to act unilaterally to clean up Darfar too?

    Call Kofi and tell him he needs to get out of NYC more often. There's stuff going on in the world.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    TequilaBoobs

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    #14
    Unfortunately it's true. Name me one other government/empire in history that had more military strength than USA now. Not the Spanish Armada, or British Navy or Genghis Khan. Hard to believe it, but USA rox!
     
  15. macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    Scary.:rolleyes:
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #16
    Since this is probably going to the political forum anyway...

    THANK YOU!

    THANK YOU!!!

    Amen indeed. Glad to find someone else who gets it. :)

    There is this little known corner of the world... its called Rwanda. "acts" ( :rolleyes: ) of genocide were committed there. Between 800,000 to 1,071,000 people were killed in about 100 days. Clinton did *nothing*

    Yugoslavia... I've been to bosnia and kosovo (during the war itself) and the majority of people there are resentful toward the US and Clinton because, to them, it was a big charade for the benefit of the news.
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    If you read the article further, you would have seen that Clinton said he regretted not doing more about that. Of course you omit that and conveniently ignore the context of that moment in history. Remember Blackhawk Down and the fiasco in Somalia the year before? Americans were not happy about our involvement in African affairs at that time.

    But, are you saying Bush would have done any better? Are you saying that he will eventually admit that our inaction on Darfur was regrettable?

    Back to my earlier point: I never said Bill Clinton was up to your 20/20 hindsight standards of sainthood, but he is head and shoulders better than Bush. Just because two leaders don't live up to your expectations doesn't mean that they are both equally lousy. Bush is much lousier.
     
  18. Ugg
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    Ugg

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    #18

    The US support for the Islamists is one of the most two-faced attitudes I've ever known. Aren't we supposed to be fighting terrorism instead of supporting it? Too bad that bushco has no idea where Darfur is. Well, actually, it's probably better for them that he doesn't.
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    Grakkle

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    #19
    The UN should be doing something about Darfur. I agree that this is one instance where if a nation were to act unilaterally it might be justified. But it's the responsibility of the UN to act, not the US.

    I maintain that Clinton was no humanitarian - read Noam Chomsky. And yes, Chomsky is far left as far as American politics go, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. His work is a lot more convincing than the crap the Republicans and Democrats spew.
     
  20. macrumors 6502a

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    #20
     
  21. macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #21
    Umm, Have you been to either Bosnia or Kosovo? How about Albania? You're right. In Albania and Kosovo I was 12. I was carrying lenses and film through refugee camps while my photojournalist mom snapped photos. I was in Bosnia last year. Lived with the bodyguard for the US ambassador. I think I know what I'm talking about. ;)
    I knew those figures long before double checking on google. In fact, if I weren't so lazy, I could've double checked using one of the many books I have on rwanda resting on my shelf containing many books about all different genocide's around the world.

    I'm not saying Bush could've done any better. In fact, I'm quite upset with his administration right now. You are also 100% correct on the Mogadishu issue as well. In fact, that tidbit of history could play into Bush's handling of Darfur. We are in two wars right now, who needs a third one?

    This thread is getting really heated up! :eek:
    I am curious as to why both of you are so quick to flame. Not that I care, no harm done. Its just not necessary. FYI, both of these quoted comments would've held up and been perfectly fine without resorting to personal attacks.
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    TequilaBoobs

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    #22
    shuush, its all in good fun. Pop!
     
  23. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #23
    I've been to Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia but not Albania or Kosovo.

    What you've done is simplified an extremely complex situation into a pair of soundbytes. Hardly fair to any of the parties involved.

    The Bosnians and Croatians were extremely grateful for the intervention of the US and NATO, what they aren't happy with is that it came so late. The Dayton Peace Accord was a necessary evil and one that has caused great problems within Bosnia. However, the solution to this problem must come from within but the long standing blood feuds and the uniquely Balkan endemic corruption will probably prevent this from happening.

    Slovenia's per capita GDP is higher than Portugal's and Slovenia will be the first of the ten new EU entrants to use the Euro. Even Croatia has done reasonably well in the aftermath of the Balkan wars. Blaming Clinton or even the EU for the problems that Bosnia, Serbia or Kosovo face is irresponsible when the problems they face are internal.

    Albania and Kosovo's extremely high birthrates are to blame for the bulk of their problems. Add to that the culture of corruption that is a legacy of the Ottoman Empire and you have an intractable situation that can only be solved through cultural change not from without.

    I'm not "quick to flame" but when someone attempts to reduce a complex problem to a pair of soundbytes, my BS meter sounds an alarm.

    Your insight into the unique situation in the Balkans is more than welcome. As per the rules of the board, please provide valid links when discussing controversial issues. If it's an opinion, please state it as such.
     
  24. Ugg
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    Ugg

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    #24
    Clinton was hamstrung by NATO, the Pentagon and public opinion. It always amazes me that bushco got so much support to invade Iraq when his reasons for doing so were bare faced lies, whereas Clinton was lambasted for even thinking about stopping the slaughter in the Balkans.
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #25
    This is MacRumors. I'll save my 10 page political reports for my PoliSci major. ;) :)
    I'm not blaming Clinton or anyone else for what happened in the Balkans. I never tried to, nor will I. I was reacting to MacFanDave's quote:
    by pointing out that Clinton isn't the God that some people make him out to be. And, for the record, Bush is far from obtaining that status as well.
    Since you are an authority on the issue, why was the previous post about me being 12 even necessary? Your latest post is chock full of information that is all correct. It would've been a great alternative to the flame. Once again, I must stress: If your BS meter goes off, instead of flaming hit back with factual evidence. In my experience that shuts someone up far quicker than personal attacks.

    We must have been speaking to different people, because everyone I spoke to in sarajevo on the issue was pretty upset with the U.S.
    Sadly, I cant provide a link because I'm speaking from personal experience.

    Hopefully this clears up the remaining issued between myself, Ugg, and MacFanDave. :)

    (this is why I try my best to avoid the political forums! :eek: :D )
     

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