USB On-the-Go - iMacs out

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by MorganX, Feb 21, 2003.

  1. MorganX macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #1
    Motorola just signed on. Needs USB 2.0. I'm really starting to have doubts about buying an iMac. I still have a week to cancel, it's not due until 3/3/03. I just don't know.

    Would be nice if Apple resolved to make motherboard upgrades available to protect it's customers investments.
     
  2. menoinjun macrumors 6502a

    menoinjun

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    #2
    ????

    I have no idea what this post is about, but I assume that you don't like the fact that USB 2.0 sn't included with the new Apple products.

    Who cares? I don't see the big deal!!

    First off, I'm pretty sure that the USB 2.0 standard is owned or partially owned by Intel, and there is no way in hell that Apple is going to pay Intel to use their chips in an Apple computer.

    Secondly, what on earth is the big attraction to USB 2.0? Everything made for USB 2.0 is also made for firewire! Firewire was out for a year or two (or three) before USB 2.0, so you can get hard drives, scanners, printers, cd-rw, anything for firewire as well as USB 2.0! The Epson 2450 scanner is both USB 2.0 and Firewire...external drives are about the same price for either...etc...

    Lastly, I think people are blinded by the apparent speed of USB 2.0. Yes, theoretically it is 80mb/s faster than Firewire (480 v. 400), but you have to realize that most devices don't even reach the maximum throughput levels of Firewire or USB 2.0. So what does it matter? The speeds are esentially the same. I ended up putting a USB 2.0 card into my G4 NOT because of the speed, but just to get 5 more powered internal USB ports and not have to use a hub.

    Firewire is already built into ALL macs. If Apple honestly thought that USB 2.0 was a technology that people needed, then it would be included with every mac. Don't forget though that Apple gets money every time another company uses firewire in their devices. Don't forget that now FW 800 is out there and can run old FW devices with an adapter!

    -Pete
     
  3. MorganX thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #3
    Re: ????

    USB on-the-go is an emerging standard for connecting cell phones, pdas, and other deviced directly to PC and peripherals. A PC is not necessarily needed.

    The concern is that Apple is not keeping up iwth industry standards. If it is to be the digital hub, it can't let itself fall too far behind, unless you will only be using Apple devices.

    I don't know the licensing requirements for USB 1 or 2. I know that firewire's licensing has hampered it's adoption. USB 1 it a standard on both platforms, so it has not been impeded by licensing. Lack of USB 2 support is more of a choice by Apple. It may turn out to be a bad one.

    Sony (Clie PDAs)
    Motorola (Cell Phones)
    ATI
    Qualcomm (Cell Phone Chips)
    Philips
    Texas Instruments

    Are all on board, I doubt there will be an equivalent firewire solution.
     
  4. pantagruel macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Location:
    here and there
    #4
    sorry, but for you to not get a mac because it doesnt support usb2 shows me your not very bright. industry standards? Apple received an Emmy for Firewire my friend, why don't more PC'S use Firewire. There are plenty of devices that already use Firewire, I know my camcorder works great with it.
    USB2 came out trying to catch up to Firewire, and it really didnt, some manufacturers even gave up USB2 support and switched to Firewire and USB 1. And now there is Firewire 2 which is even faster and more capable than USB2. The Industry Standard should be Firewire 2, why would Apple invest and waste money in a lesser product?
    Buy a PC.....it will sure be worth it to get USB2.:rolleyes:
     
  5. MorganX thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #5
    I don't give a Sh*(t how many Emmy's apple won. It's meaningless in the computing world. You know how many people deserve Emmy's and Grammy's and never get one?

    Obviously I purchased an iMac without USB2. However, because ALL the major players in the industry are embracing USB 2.0 this show lack of foresight on Apple's part. It's backing itself into a corner and I don't know if I'm going to be a not too bright Mac user constantly left out in the cold because of Apple decisions.

    Great camcorders use firewire, they also use USB. And now, PDAs and Cell phones will use USB and not firewire. But camcorders and iPods will.
     
  6. pantagruel macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
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    here and there
    #6
    only not all the major players are backing usb2, your wrong there. there is plenty of support for apple and firewire.
     
  7. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #7
    Re: Re: ????

    Apple *sets* industry standards. almost 100% of the time. USB2.0 is a useless technology that will just cloud up the peripheral waters and confuse consumers until it dies.

    usb-to-go is just the other companies trying to force Apple to adjust to their standards. which isn't going to happen. don't expect to see USB2.0 on any iMacs... well, ever.

    There will be adaptors tho.

    pnw
     
  8. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #8
    Re: Re: ????


    well three of your above examples are
    portable communication devices. i believe
    apple is using blue tooth to accomodate
    connectivity to devices like the above.

    is usb2 wireless? why do you want to plug
    in a cable from your cell/pda to your
    computer when you can use blue tooth?

    blue tooth isnt fast. but what are you
    downloading from a cell/pda that you
    need usb2?

    i know blue tooth and usb2 comparisons
    are like apples and oranges but look at
    the devices in your example. like i said
    three were cell/pda. i think usb2 would
    be overkill in these devices.....at the
    moment AND they still arent wireless if
    usb2 is there only solution for data transport.

    blue tooth offeres a solution thats just so
    much better then anything that requires
    a cable for connectivity.

    again, i remind you that im talking about
    on the go life style communication devices.
    i am not suggestion a video camera use
    blue tooth.
     
  9. MorganX thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #9
    Re: Re: Re: ????

    No USB is not wireless, but it is cheap. I would prefer bluetooth. But when it comes to Digital Lifestyle Devices, if USB 2 is ubiquitous to control prices bluetooth and those without USB 2 may be left out in the cold.

    I think Apple should definitely rethink it's stance on USB 2. They're not going to force the market to standardize on FW by not supporting USB 2, they're just going to isolate the Mac even further.

    If I wanted a tower I could protect myself, but if I'm going to have a tower I'm going to have a PC.

    I won't cancel my order, but I do feel like it's usefulness will be extremely limited. Again, I would like to see some type of plan from apple to protect iMac investors. I think users who shelled out top dollar for an iMac 6 months ago should have the option of taking it to an Apple reseller and upgrade the motherboard. $500 sounds good to me.

    Maybe that's just the PC user in me expecting that kind of protection from obsolesence.
     
  10. MorganX thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #10
    Re: Re: Re: ????

    Yeah right.
     
  11. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #11
    Re: Re: Re: Re: ????


    i think so. i really dont think hardware
    would be a reason to become a switcher.
    apple needs to play catch up right now.
    unless of course your talking about the
    powerbook/ibook/ipod. their professional
    systems are lacking in power. still, they
    have enough power for the ad industry.
    so im good with it.

    mac users dont get to use a lot of devices
    out there. or at least our options are more
    limited. i say if your comfortable configuring
    windows and you like the OS in general,
    then i'd cancel your order and wait till mac
    truly delivers a nice desktop. osx is nice and
    rediculously stable but if apple isnt
    compatible with devices you want, or if you
    need super fast speeds, you really might
    want to click that cancel button.
     
  12. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #12
    Re: Re: Re: Re: ????

    Indeed.
     
  13. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #13
    Re: Re: Re: Re: ????

    -MorganX

    I'm not usually one to get involved in arguments here, but I feel this must be said:

    It almost appears that you are trolling for an argument. Please open your mind up a little. Sure, the wording of "Apple *sets* industry standards. almost 100% of the time. " was a bit extreme and blanket. But there is a lot of historical truth to this.

    Apple did introduce the world to USB 1 in the first place. Sure the didn't invent the technology, Intel did that, but they did set the standard, from an introductory standpoint. USB2 is nifty, but just not a clear improvement over FireWire 400. You still need drivers and even then it may never reach the ceiling of it's theoretical max of 480. Firewire devices rarely need drivers, and that's the point. And it does reach its ceiling. USB2 is cheaper, but that's the operative word: cheaper.

    Also, don't forget FireWire is an industry standard: IEEE 1394.
     
  14. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #14
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????


    that, i think is the best :D i LOVE being
    able to take a device out of its box....
    and just plug it in :D i didnt install anything
    for my 48x lacie cd burner :D....until later..
    when i wanted to use toast.
     
  15. MorganX thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #15
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????

    No, I was trolling for discussion, the comment that was made, was so extreme, I felt it was trolling for an argument. What good is it if is not true?

    Most of what's inside a Mac today are PC standards.

    AGP
    DDR
    PCI
    (and I'm sure Apple will adopt PCI-Express.)
    USB (with an asterisk, see below)

    Given that, the comment was just unnecessary. I personally don't care much for who was first to use what. What I would like to see is more Mac users, creatively criticize Apple where appropriate. When I'm on a PC board and say hey, MS is getting a margin of 85% on Windows XP, why are they charging for the cheesy Digital Media Plust pack I get people who agree and disagree. But no one acting like I just called their mama fat and ugly.

    BTW, Apple does set the standard for Aesthetics and UI design, realizing of course that everything has its strengths and weaknesses.

    I don't have a problem giving Apple credit for that. Though prior to Apple adopting it, it was on IBM and Dell PCs. We have refreshed many PCs that never had them enabled because Microsoft chose to wait for Windows 98 to fully support USB in a hassle-free manner. Apple jumped on board a train it new was not going to be stopped.

    Firewire is a standard, and because it can power many devices, I prefer it. The connectors could be as easy to insert/remove as USB, but that's trivial.

    The point isn't to say IEEE 1394 isn't a great technology (I still haven't written off 1394 Networking). But it is not going to be nearly as ubiquitous as USB2. And if the only reason Apple isn't moving to it is to push FW4 and FW8. I see that as a self serving (licensing) disservice to its loyal customers.

    Regarding drivers, Cameras and storage devices do not need drivers on either platform. The only USB2 devices I've seen that need drivers are of course, printers (don't think there are firewire printers) and small number of scanners.
     
  16. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #16
    usb2 is trying to be what firewire 400 has been! now with firewire 800 who cares for usb2. more windblows crap if you ask me. Heck even current firewire isnt getting saturated yet so you wont see me cry over lack of usb2.
     
  17. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #17
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????

    -MorganX

    Oh. I agree with your point in general, no animosity here. I, however, look at USB2 from the perspective of needing to convince me that it is truly better that FW1. My opinion, it's not - in fact, I see it just a tick below "as good", but mainly due to the fact that USB2 is only as fast as it's slowest device (USB2 has only one bus as standard so I run into this). FW dosen't have this limitation. The rest of the specs I couldn't give two hot dogs and a thumbtack about.

    But that's just me.

    As for wide adoption? Well, it will be interesting to see, and I'm watching...

    Aren't computers fun?
     
  18. Gus macrumors 65816

    Gus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Location:
    Minnesota
    #18
    Hmmm...

    Maybe Intel or whoever should have given up on USB 2 in favor of Firewire instead of being self-serving and forcing companies and consumers to buy peripherals with USB 2 instead of FW. Since FW was out and adopted long before USB 2, then it seems that the PC makers are the self-serving ones who purposely chose a technology that was not adopted to avoid using Apple's technology.

    Of course, I may be just full of it too. :)

    Regards,
    Gus
     
  19. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    #19
    Pet Peeve

    You said Apple should offer upgrades to protect their consumer's investment. Unfourtunatley for a purcahase to qualify as an investment it must be "Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit." So really anything (ie. a car, computer, or other tangible non -antique item) is not an investment at all. i wish people would reaslize this and stop using it improperly but thats just my pet peeve. I'm sure i'll get flamed to death for this but atleast i know i'm right.
     
  20. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
  21. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #21
    Re: Pet Peeve

    Kwyjibo I see what you are saying but I have to disagree. If your car or computer is the source of your income then it is an investment.

    Just out of curiousity how does it feel to know yer right? :p


    Lethal
     
  22. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    #22
    First off being right is like being taken to a magical place, I haven't been reading financial trash like that "rich dad, poor dad" stuff. Its just one of those things my econ 101 teacher stressed and over stressed so it bothers me now, i guess its sort of buried deep inside of me.
     
  23. yzedf macrumors 65816

    yzedf

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #23
    usb 2 has it's advantages.

    it is the same port as usb 1.1

    fw800 is a 9pin, whereas fw400 is either 4 or 6.

    if a usb 2 device is plugged into a 1.1 port, it works automatically (in a rather mac-like way...) at usb 1.1 speeds. can't do that with fw800 on a fw400 system. needs an adaptor (think dvi).

    there is no real reason to NOT have usb 2. it is essentially the same price, and all of you mac zealots would be preaching apple's insightful adoption of emerging technology, again.
     
  24. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Location:
    51st State of America
    #24
    Excuse me but USB 2 GO is not even meant for computers its another type of USB that will not work with the standard USB on pc's its simply to allow PDA's to quickly connect to a printers with USB2GO thereby skipping the PC.

    Its only meant for small devices to quickly exchange information, simply plug and transfere. Unlike with a PC where it has to be turned on or loaded up, plug it in let the OS detect it (if it does) transfere data then eject it.

    MS (in the reveiw i read) is concerned about this because a computer isn't needed so why should apple use it if its NOT meant for computers?
     
  25. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #25
    Re: USB On-the-Go - iMacs out

    Apple does package some nice upgrade for iMac owners, it's called a brand new computer.

    The only computer that is upgradeable (sort of), and you can add feature to, is the PowerMac. That is if the feature and upgrade you are hoping for fits in a standard PCI slot.

    The PowerMac has an actual AGP slot, CPU daughter card, and some PCI slots -- these can be used to upgrade the video, CPU, and plug in expansion cards. Since none of the other computers offer any of these slots, because it's all soldered to the motherboard, you have to upgrade through replacement of the equipment.

    So if being able to upgrade later to USB 2.0 is important, buy a PowerMac ...

    Hint on PowerMac - Cheap VGA monitors work and reduce the price of the purchase.
     

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