venting and a question

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by AlphaTech, Jul 26, 2002.

  1. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #1
    This is for everyone that has installed OS X 10.1.x recently along with OS X native applications. I would like to hear how long it took you to do the full install, and if you kept OS 9.2.x on the computer along with applications that you have that are not OS X native (yet).

    At work, we are approaching the end of the testing phase before being able to adopt OS X. It's taken this long mostly because it has taken some time to get OS X native versions of some applications (Ill10, PS7, and OrficeX). The way we have to do it really blows. One of the tech's down in corporate (in NJ) has made an image that we have to use for the instal. This wouldn't be so bad IF it could be placed onto a cd. It cannot since the compressed file is about 1.4GB. I had to download it via a ftp server (~5Mb pipe between MA and NJ, at best). The way this image works is that it installs OS X along with ALL the applications the company has licenses for. We only have two options, restore in place, and restore with wiping the drive. :eek:

    Well, I installed the image as they wanted us to (forced to use an external drive, I went with a firewire one). Placing it onto a ruby iMac took over 45 minutes to just install (without wiping the drive first). It took even more time to make the modifications that they want done, as well as make sure that the files (that were on the iMac before the install) were not corrupted.

    The other tech placed the image/installer onto his firewire drive and installed it onto a G4 (DA). He had installed OS 9.2.2 onto the G4 first, but I had him do a restore with wipe to see if it would take any less time. It actually took just as long.

    There are other problems with the image they are forcing on us, not the least of which is the fact that the admin password that we have been provided doesn't work. All of these problems will be documented (by myself and my fellow tech's in MA). If history is anything to go by, all of our issues will be ignored by the people in NJ. Is that a common issue with people that live down in NJ?? :eek: :D
     
  2. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #2
    Re: venting and a question

    ive never installed osx via disk image like that but i suspect that is why the install is so slow. installing osx via the install cd takes less than 10 minutes (about 5 minutes with 10.2). about 20 minutes on my older computer (g3 powerbook). As far as installs go, that is extremely fast. Clean installs typically are faster, but not by much. I would say the difference in time is probably insignificant to most people. I do not have os9 or os9 disk drivers installed on any of my computers at home anymore, but at work we will be stuck on os9 until we switch to DELL since ABI switched to DELL. So we are all hanging on to OS7,8,and 9 until the computers completely die on us and fore us to 'upgrade' to a DELL. its pretty sad to me that all molecualr biology labs in the world have been using mac all these years and now we all have to switch to DELL, i would have thought apple would fight for the ABI contract. people are not at all happy about the switch.

    have you considered using ARD to install osx to many machines at once? d some of the machiens not have a dvd drive (trying to figure out why they didnt burn to dvd). its a bit surprising you guys are doing this now considering 10.2 will need to be installed in just a couple weeks, but it sounds like i do not need to point out the poor planning of management to you at this point.
     
  3. metrolotus macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    #3
    I have worked for a company that was moving to os X and every install i did from cd took about 30-40 minutes I have installed on everything from a G4 400 to a dual gig and they all took about the same time if your install image is installing the developer tools that take another 45 minutes. I hope this helps the way we did it and will be recommending to out clients is to put each os (9) (10) on separate partitions so that is how I was testing and doing the installs.
     
  4. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #4
    We are not rolling it out to the computers that are on the floor yet (the users) but just installing it onto test systems.

    I completely agree that the reason for the lag is because they are forcing us to use the image off an external drive. I would prefer to use an OS X install cd (10.1 or 10.2 when it ships) and then install the applications as we need to. That is how things have been done in the past.

    The only time, in the past, that I have used an image is for the pc's at work. Even then, I have the people that create them split them so that I can burn cd's and then boot from a Ghost floppy. I'm pretty sure the people that created the OS X install image could have done the same thing, especially since Apple does it (three restore cd's for my TiBook). It couldn't be all that difficult to do either.

    I will be seeing if we can just get them to send up the application installers so that we can use those on systems without either USB or FireWire. Considering how long it too with a FireWire drive, I wouldn't even consider trying via USB.

    I'm sure that I could make an install cd for the applications that were installed onto the test system, which I shouldn't have to do. Now that I think about it, I think I will use Vise this week and make an installer that will allow us to select any of the applications to install, including the license that the company owns. This won't be a problem, since we have the version of Vise that will work under OS X (native) as well as 9.x. As it stands, we need to use classic mode for Outlook for the company email.
     
  5. Pin-Fisher macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Location:
    Marlton NJ
    #5
    Re: venting and a question


    LOL.....Not in my town.. :D
     
  6. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #6
    metrolotus, we are using a single partition, without installing the developer tools. There are some systems that won't need the same applications as the designers and page production people do (not everyone needs Photoshop, Illustrator, full Acrobat or Quark).

    I don't know who you work for, but we haven't used multiple partitions since nt4. None of our Apple systems have more then one partition. This will remain the case, especially since that would make the install time even longer, and has the potential of ****ing up things. We also don't have enough server space to back up each system before partitioning the drives and then installing everything.

    We don't (yet) have ARD, since we do have ANAT for OS 9.x. ARD is on the OS X image, which does us no good since they just installed the client part of it. I need to admin part in order for it to be of any use to us.

    I really don't like the direction that they are forcing us to take with the OS X image. What works down in NJ is not going to work at all for us in MA (either site). We have divisions and departments up here that have their own licenses for software, which they want to continue to use. Among other things, that allows those sections to update to the latest version then corporate typically does. We are just now starting to see Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7. :rolleyes: It typically takes them months to send up software updates.
     
  7. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #7
    Ahhh, yes...the wonders of working as a technician.:rolleyes:

    I'm still trying to figure out how we're going to do our lab installations with the new eMacs we're getting in Aug/Sep. 34 machines that will all need identical installations.

    We have ARD, but I am going to have to test out how to distribute disk images with it. ARD cannot overwrite the system on the disk the machine is booted into, so you have to boot from a CD or other device that has ARD client...but ARD gets confused if they all have the same computer name. I still need to work on this some more...but if I can't get it figured out I'll have to decide if we do one machine at a time or try a network install.

    Plus I still have to try out some of those OS X CD creation utilities to see how well/if they work.

    In case you haven't already, check out www.macosxlabs.com. They have some good information of this whole process.

    I feel your pain, buddy.
     
  8. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #8
    Row-dog... In the past, I have just used the Vise installer to place whatever applications were needed on a system. I would install OS 9.x onto the system (wipe and install for systems that came with OS X because that's what corporate had dictated to us) and then use the Vise installer to place whatever applications were needed. That reduced the install time to a fraction of what it was before. I could do a full setup for a non-designer (or page production) in under 5 minutes. Even with installing all the applications (everything we have) takes 10 minutes or less.

    That's the kind of thing I will be experiementing with this week. I need to see about making a new installer (with Vise) for all the applications that the image installed as well.

    If you have a server where you can place a Vise created install application, you could use ARD to get to that server from the computer and then run it. Vise (set up correctly) takes all the hassle out of installing software. You can set it to run and walk away, litterally, and then come back a few minutes later and it's done. It will take some time to get everything to work properly, but once you have it right, you don't have to worry about it. :D
     
  9. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  10. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #10
    I'm sure you already know, but Vise is made by MindVision. Click on the Vise image in the middle of the screen and then you can get more info. It may not be the cheapest installer making software, but I firmly believe it is the most powerful, as well as the easiest to use. It took me a short time to figure it out, and they offer great support to help you with any problems you might encounter.
     
  11. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Location:
    Michigan
    #11
    alpha... this is exactly the app i've been looking for!!!!

    i've been on a quest to convert our district to the bright side but the current superintendent hates macs... we've convinced the business manager that macs would be better in some of our labs but we've been told to find a way to make them seamlessly integrate with our current network and practices... we image our pc's all the time and this installer/imaging app from mind vision seem perfect

    i'm one step closer...

    you're my hero, alpha... :)
     
  12. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    Miami
    #12
    My god, how boring and egocentric this thread is...:eek: :eek: :eek: :p ;)
     
  13. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #13
    If you don't like the thread, DON'T READ IT. twit :rolleyes:
     
  14. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #14
    kishba, Vise may not be cheap, but it does a great job.

    I found it best to have a clean system to install everything onto so that you can see where everything has been placed.
     
  15. Pin-Fisher macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Location:
    Marlton NJ
    #15

    I'm sure none of this interests you since its all talk of proper licencing and doing things the legal way....you self proclimed thief....
     

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  16. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Location:
    Michigan
    #16
    just for clarification... i think i've seen another, close school district use 1 installer to install os 9 and all of their apps (they could select individually a custom install of apps during the install process)... does vise do this as well (preferably with os 10)?

    or is it just something to run to install multiples apps AFTER os 10 is installed...?

    thanks man, either way you're still my hero ;)
     
  17. AlphaTech thread starter macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #17
    From what I have seen, Vise should be able to do all of that... Send them an email and see if it will.

    I have my Vise installer set so that I choose which apps get installed.
     

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