Video game degrees are kidnapping education and Nintendo is sexist!

Discussion in 'Games' started by GFLPraxis, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    Mar 17, 2004
    #1
    http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5863

    This must be the most incredibly stupid person to ever carry a degree.

    That last bit makes me laugh, because he claims video game degrees are ruining education and yet a video game degree is basicly just computer science combined with 3d modelling and other fields...
     
  2. madmax_2069 macrumors 6502a

    madmax_2069

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    #2
    its prolly joseph leberman's wife or the crack man himself. i cant stand people like that. blame everything on games or tv or music video's. they put the blame on the games and they should put should put the blame on bad parents wich they dont. There is nothing wrong with making games and stuff. what it is just there jellous they cant do that stuff and make the money the people that make games make
     
  3. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #3
    He's probably just ignorant/stupid, and thinks that a video game degree is a degree that is useless for anything except video games and is like a toy degree or something, not realizing that video games are programmed like any computer application, just require more work. Thus, he makes the conclusion that, since so many people are getting video game degrees, they're not taking 'real' classes (because he's too stupid to realize a video game degree is computer science) and are wasting their education to play games.

    Thats how stupid people think...hey, we do live in America.
     
  4. rockthecasbah macrumors 68020

    rockthecasbah

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    #4
    their sexist argument isn't valid because it is seen just as sexist to have a female on the cover, 'attracting' gamers...so basically having a character with a gender on the cover can be seen as sexist.;)
     
  5. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #5
    And we all know that Samus is a dominant male figure and has to rescue females, right?

    Oh wait.


    Good post:

    And as he notes, Zelda has become much stronger. In OoT she blasted Ganon and pinned him down. In Wind Waker she ran him through with numerous light arrows.

    In Super Smash Bros the female characters are among the best. My best character is Peach (with whom I can own anyone in the game, even Gigabowser and the two master hands), and the only person I know in real life that can match me on Super Smash Bros (you guys on forums I've never played against don't count) plays as Samus. Both are female. And Zelda/Shiek is really powerful.
     
  6. michaelltd macrumors regular

    michaelltd

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    Mar 30, 2005
    #6
    I'm actually getting me a Bachelor of Science in Real-Time Interactive Simulation at DigiPen Institute of Technology.

    I can definitly tell you that that guy is ignorant.

    At DigiPen, we work damn hard. Next semester, I'm going to be holding onto 22 units! That is far above the average in other places. On top of that, we work harder for every unit.

    When we leave DigiPen, we know damn well how to program just about anything, as well as knowledge of graphics, math, business, and working as a team.
     
  7. Tommyg117 macrumors 6502a

    Tommyg117

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    Philadelphia, PA
    #7
    This guy is just making broad generalizations. He wants to believe so much that videogames are bad that he will make rash judgements and balance the argument in his favor without considering the other side. Any strong argument must weigh both sides thoroughly in order to prove their point. Why is he lashing out at videogame degrees instead of film and music degrees? Both CAN be used to portray things that are "wrong" according to him. And besides, he is making his living on bashing other peoples decisions. If it makes someone happy to design games, and they make a living doing it, then more power to em. They are at least doing something they enjoy instead of making their money bashing other peoples way of life. I think ole' Ted should take a look in the mirror and realize that some people might not agree with everything HE teaches, so why should he disagree with things other people teach.
     
  8. dubbz macrumors 68020

    dubbz

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    #8
    Why do we even care about what this guys says? He obviously have no idea what he's talking about.

    Is he anyone of significance that could cause any problems?
     
  9. madmax_2069 macrumors 6502a

    madmax_2069

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    #9

    Because its supid minded people like this that is making it harder for people to make games the way they want to. i see the way games are made as free speach or whatever you weant to call it. and its people like this that are having laws put in place to limit the content in the games and making people believe its the games fault that there kids are out stealing cars and breaking into houses or killing people because of the game made there kids ignorant. just look at joseph leberman (cant spell his name and could care less if i do or not)and what he has people beleaving that games are rotting the mind of kids. that is a big old NOT its the parents that just dont tell there kids from wrong and right and could care less what there kid does at night. i think joesph leberman and his followers is the biggest bunch of crack pot of all and they need thrown out of any thing having to do with the government.
     
  10. seenew macrumors 68000

    seenew

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    Brooklyn
    #10
    Anyone find it funny that some laws passed recently make it nearly improssible for most gun companies to be held liable for violent crimes committed by using their products, since that was not the original intent of the product, yet lawsuits are filed left and right against game companies for causing America's youth to become more and more violent?

    Politics suck.
     
  11. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #11
    C'mon, folks -- let's lay off the character assasination. I don't agree with him either, but there's plenty of research that links violent media to violent crime. And while I agree that limiting content isn't the best solution, calling a well educated man ignorant or stupid isn't making his argument any less persuasive. Has anyone even bothered to read what he actually wrote?

    It's not brilliant stuff, but wouldn't we be better off disputing his claims and evidence than demeaning him?

    :rolleyes:
     
  12. TheMonarch macrumors 65816

    TheMonarch

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    Bay Area
    #12

    Cool!
    I have a friend who goes to that school, though I think he only takes 20 units... Still, wow. Wish I could afford to go there, but the living expenses are just too high for me.

    For those who don't know what DigiPen is, its like, the ultimate videogame school... Its part of the Nintendo [of America] building!... Awesome school.

    As for that old fart... Screw him. Seems like he just wants some attention.
     
  13. madmax_2069 macrumors 6502a

    madmax_2069

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    Springfield Ohio
    #13
    he is ignorant cause he dont see the fact that games dont do the damage its the ignorant parents neglecting to do there job to correct and teach there kids. I was brought up with video games and i have a spotless record. ive read what he has to say and i think he is ignorant. Look in the 1930's was there videogames then ?? no, and there was just as much violence then if not more as there is now. he is just like the ignorant joesph leberman they are to clouded to really look in to and see the real problem is. i like the fact that a woman caracters are in games and star in games
     
  14. michaelltd macrumors regular

    michaelltd

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    Mar 30, 2005
    #14

    Forgive me. Kinda hits me personally when he dismisses what I'm working so hard for to be "nonsense".

    I really disagree with him, and I find his comments on Nintendo games being sexist to be absurd, as evidence mentioned above.
     
  15. michaelltd macrumors regular

    michaelltd

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    Mar 30, 2005
    #15

    Yeah, I'm very happy that I was accepted. :)

    It's great. Great atmosphere, so many similar minds, and great teachers. Professor Comair and Professor Erhardt are the best. :D

    Comair has worked for Nintendo for many years and he founded DigiPen.
    http://www.n-sider.com/personnelview.php?personnelid=591

    He says he's retiring after this year though, but I'm glad I was able to be in one of his classes. Very funny guy.
    :)
     
  16. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #16
    What freakin' evidence? Yes, I read it. But his claim that we're disputing is:

    A major in designing violent video games? What is he talking about? It's a major in designing games, not violent games. He makes this assumption that all games are inherintly violent.
    He implies that video game design is an inferior education to other degrees and literally calls it NONSENSE. This is just stupid.

    I have to ask; what do they consider violence? Because the way I'm seeing this, he's considering ANYTHING that has an opponent violent. I guess Nintendogs and Animal Crossing are the only non-violent one. Oh wait, you kill fish in Animal Crossing!

    Seriously, go watch some G rated movies. The Lion King. Scar was brutally killed, eaten and burned to death. Beauty and the Beast. That guy I forgot his name fell off a building and died. Looney Toons is incredibly violent- Daffy Duck is often graphically shot in the head, and Elmer Fudd savagely beaten. Mario jumps on the heads of some squids and turtles. Wow, that's violent.


    He's over-generalizing and lumping Super Mario Sunshine in the same category as Grand Theft Auto. Then using that conclusion to proclaim that all video games are violent, and therefore everyone taking a game programming course is learning to develop violent games and picks up no other skills in the process.

    That is blatant stupidity at work.
     
  17. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #17
    Again, I'm on your side in this. But no one, in this thread at least, seems to want to deal with:

    His argument is that if video games can lead to cultural violence, the academy should not be involved in their production (and even that such involvement runs contrary to the mission of the academy). And I, like you, dispute this claim.

    But who will show why it's wrong? If I offered the argument "College's should not be promoting cultural violence," I think most people would agree with me. So the burden of proof here is to dispute his evidence -- to show that video games do not lead to higher levels of aggression and violence.
     
  18. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    Jul 1, 2004
    #18
    What about Pong... that's violent. It teaches about gangs, and such. Two paddles, mercilessly beating that ball back and forth. It reminds me of two bullies pushing a kid around in the school yard. :)p )

    I have a lot of respect for video game programmers. It's like getting a double (at least) major. Theres computer science (for the programming) and design (for the modeling) and maybe a bit of liberal arts (the storyline). I definitely couldn't do it. I took a few semesters of programming, but wasn't good at it (just good enough to pass). And I went to Georgia Tech (one of the schools offering the major). I know some people who were taking those classes, and they're some really hard working people.

    I guess what really bothers me is that this guy is just trying to get some attention. It's the same stuff over and over again. I just wish that people would take some responsibility for their own actions. :mad:
     
  19. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #19
    Again, we all need to be held to a certain level of accountability. Everyone tries to blame the world's problems on some institution. What about nuclear physicists? They develop technology that can be turned into bombs that kill millions of people? Should we stop colleges from giving out those degrees as well? I'm not attacking anyone here, so don't take it that way. I'm just angry that people blame others for their own problems. And there are people, like the writer of the article, that feed stupid people their lies in order to take advantage of the situation, and, I believe, use the situations for their own personal gain.
     
  20. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Hey I just got my BS in CS with a Software Engineering option at CSU Hayward, and am working on my masters. (finals start in 3 hours) I took 34 units last winter quarter, and did 90 in 4 quarters. (Went from part time college for 3 years to double time for 1 to finish in 4 heh) Beat that. ;)

    I had to get special permission. I kept notching it up a class. The dept chair hates me.
     
  21. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #21
    But like I said, he's overgeneralizing. He's making the incredibly ignorant assumption that if someone takes a game degree, they will make a video game that leads to cultural violence.

    This is just silly. It's like saying that since most movies feature violence, anyone studying film is doomed to work on a violent film.

    Whether or not he's right that violent video games lead to higher levels of agression and violence, what he's absolutely wrong about is the assumption that anyone who studies game design in a college will make a violent video game, or that the colleges train students to make violent video games. The college teaches them programming, modelling, and the other skills required- it's up to them, later on, whether they make a violent or a good video game.

    The burden of proof is not to dispute his evidence. He's applying the evidence wrongly. It's a logical fallacy.

    He states: "Violent video games lead to higher levels of agression and violence."

    He reasons that: "Therefore, training someone to make video games is training them to make people violent."

    I'm not arguing with the statement. I'm arguing with his reasoning. I'm not arguing with the evidence; I'm arguing that the evidence doesn't support the idiotic conclusion he makes. It's called a logical fallacy. Because some video games are violent, he overgeneralizes that to be that ALL videogames are violent. Now, because he claims that all video games are violent, then all schools must be training people to make violent games. The reasoning does not fit.
     
  22. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Los Angeles
    #22
    So because someone who majors in "video games" *might* make a "violent" video game (I put the term in quotes because no one has said what qualifications a game must meet to be classified as "violent") and that video game *might* be played by someone who is already predisposed to violence college's shouldn't offer this major? Following that logic college's shouldn't offer music majors because someone might write violent music. And college's shouldn't offer filmmaking degrees because someone might make a violent film. And college's most certainly shouldn't offer literature degrees because someone might write something violent. Hell. People just shouldn't be taught how to read or write. Everyone knows that uneducated and illiterate people are the most peaceful. :rolleyes:

    Now for some specific problems I have w/the guys stance.
    What does EA have to do those games listed? Unless I'm mistaken EA doesn't develop or publish those games. And why doesn't he mention all the sports games (what EA is famous for)? Is it because mentioning that would weaken his "all video games are evil" stance?

    Correlation is not causation. I'm sure studies would indicate that most bank robbers wear shoes, so does that mean that wearing shoes encourages people to rob banks? What about time spent watching TV, or on the internet? Do video games lower kids' grades or do kids w/lower grades play more video games?

    Everything quoted above comes from studies done in the late '80's and early '90's. A corner stone of his argument is based on 15-18 year old data. I tried to learn more about the NCTV but they don't have a web site (at least note one I could find via google). And relevant search results pointed me to people citing the same info from the same study. Best I can tell the NCTV hasn't released any new research since the early '90's. And I'm suspect of their opinions anyway because obviously the National Coalition on Television Violence is going to present data that backs up its position.

    So people, especially habitually violent people (duh), may temporarily be more violent after playing a violent game. Doesn't sound too earth shattering to me. After watching a sad movie I'm temporarily more sad and after watching a game of football on TV I usually feel like playing football. How much does exposure to video games differ from exposure to different types of media (movies, books, music, etc.,) in eliciting these kinds of temporary feelings?

    Ken Owen is cherry picking info that supports his uneducated opinion and is disregarding anything that doesn't support his view of reality. Way to take the "education" out of "higher education" Ken.


    Lethal
     
  23. savar macrumors 68000

    savar

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    #23
    The level of idiocy in this world would decline steeply if people took themselves less seriously and actually took the time to think about and debate complex issues.

    Now I'm going to break my own rule and say: Anybody that thinks the US needs *fewer* engineers and *less* math education is a complete and total moron.
     
  24. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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  25. Kobushi macrumors 6502a

    Kobushi

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    #25
    It could be worse. We could be getting more Poli-Sci majors. And everyone knows it's politicians that are responsible for starting wars and bringing millions of people to untimely deaths.:rolleyes:
     

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