waitaminute... i thought Nationalized Health Care is supposed to be better

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Frohickey, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Frohickey macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Surgeons Close Wounds with Paperclips

     
  2. DavisBAnimal macrumors member

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    What does this have to do with Nationalized Health Care? Couldn't the same thing theoretically be happening in hospitals over here?

    I don't see how the system over there is causing this problem - is it cause the system doesn't provide enough money for doctors to have access to real equipment?

    Davis
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    Nothing really, it's just a taunt. Last year I read a story about a surgeon in Brazil who performed emergency brain surgery on a man with a power drill he bought in a hardware store and a pair of pliers he kept in his car.
     
  4. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    For the record: the World Health Organization ranked health care quality by country. Here are their rankings:

    1 France
    2 Italy
    3 San Marino
    4 Andorra
    5 Malta
    6 Singapore
    7 Spain
    8 Oman
    9 Austria
    10 Japan

    The U.S. ranked 37th -- just ahead of Slovenia.

    If I hear one time that "we have the world's best health care system" I think I will puke.

    By the way, the U.K. was ranked 18.
     
  5. wwworry macrumors regular

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    I bet you could buy a lot of health care for people with the $25 million Scrushy stole at Heathsouth.
     
  6. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    to your knowledge, is widespread availability used as a factor in the ranking? what about affordability?
     
  7. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    Yes. They use the term "fairness" -- which they define as equal access to care, and equal care. That is where the U.S. fell down. The U.S. spends more per capita on health care than any other country, but provides unequal care and unequal access to care.
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    Yes, socialised medicine is a shambles.

    So go to Ethiopia and get some good old capitalist medicine instead.
     
  9. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Aren't those the blue-skinned people with the antennae on their heads?
     
  10. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Hehehe... time for another game of 'Name the person that made this quote".

    The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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  12. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    Mrs Churchill
     
  13. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    The real question is how drunk was he at the time he said it?
     
  14. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

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    hmmm....somewhere between george bush and nick nolte.....
     
  15. Sayhey macrumors 68000

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    If I remember my history, Winston was one of those folks you had better get early in the day. ;)
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    :)

    Ok, so we're supposed to be shocked to discover that Winston Churchill wasn't a socialist? Well then, I'm shocked, truly shocked. And so is Mrs. Churchill, and the rest of the Churchill family.
     
  17. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Heh... another form of an ad hominem attack in order to deflect the argument.

    Lets say that is was an anonymous quote, how do you rebut that?
     
  18. Taft macrumors 65816

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    I'd rebut it by saying it is a silly oversimplification of the truth. I could just as easily reword it to be "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of miseries; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of blessings." This statement isn't any more true than Churchil's, but I bet it doesn't sit as well with your world view.

    If you are getting your outlook from mottos, quotes and pert remarks, you have a very stereotypical and grossly simplistic view of the world. *

    Which leads to an interesting question...can the previous statement (the one annotated with the asterik) possibly have any real worth?

    Taft
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

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    It was a joke! Churchill was indeed an alcoholic, but he was much, much more. Some of his record, particularly the leadership in unifying the British people and showing courage under fire during the war, is much to be admired.

    Do you want to argue that socialism means misery for all? Or do you want to argue in capitalism the inequality of wealth means there must be misery for some? As Taft has said, it is far to simple a message to be used as an analysis of either capitalism or socialism.
     
  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Yeah, he was also a child molester.

    (Note: this is also a joke.)

    Anyway, sophisticated efforts at humor notwithstanding, a one-liner is not an argument, it's just a one-liner.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Link
    Speaking of Churchill...
     
  22. jayb2000 macrumors 6502a

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    US Medical system is NOT the best

    Every year, the government estimates tens of thousands of Americans die from mistakes by doctors or nurses -- operating on wrong patients, prescribing incorrect drugs or even leaving surgical instruments inside patients.
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/02/05/cnna.med.mistakes/index.html


    Nearly five years after an Institute of Medicine report put medical mistakes on the public's radar screen, two UCSF Medical Center physicians have published a groundbreaking discussion of why errors occur and what health care providers and leaders must do to cure this epidemic.

    The book, Internal Bleeding: The Truth Behind America's Terrifying Epidemic of Medical Mistakes, was published today by Rugged Land Publishers, New York.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/index.php?newsid=5696


    Even if you remove the lack of universal and easy access, we still do not have the best system.

    My sister-in-law is a Docter and she talks about how difficult her job is, not because of "government bureaucracy" but because of the tangle of different insurers and the lack of comprehensive care that causes people to only go to the doctor (usually the emergency room) when they are really sick.
    A 5 dollar immunization shot costs far less than a round of anti-biotics or a hospital stay for influenza.
    If everyone had decent affordable medical insurance, the overall costs would drop.
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    And I thought market-driven health care was supposed to be better!

     
  24. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    Tell me about it... the good news is I should have basic health care in about a week :D My student loans come around the 17th of February and I can by student health insurance including free visits to the health clinic on campus! YEAH!
     
  25. Frohickey thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    And thats why there is malpractice insurance, another market-driven solution for the problem of inept or careless physicians.

    Now, if only there was a central repository of malpractice insurance claims and premiums paid by doctors, patients would have more information when they start their search for a physician.
     

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