War protests, do they worK?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by peter2002, Feb 15, 2003.

  1. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    #1
    War protests, do they work? I don't think so. I wonder how these Euros would have liked it if we had waited out WWII? We could have sold oil and coal to Japan and Pearl Harbor would have never happened. There were millions of people led by America First and Charles Lindbergh that believe AH was a great guy and no threat to the USA. What a bunch of ingrates these Euros are. If it wasn't for the USA, the EU would all be speaking German and Russian now.

    The protestors protested the Vietnam War for over 15 years and did little to stop the slaughter before it stopped in 1975. Non-violent protests never, ever work, only violent protests. If you have been around long enough, you know it is true - the sword is mightier than the pen. Jesus ain't coming back to save us, Lucifer is really in charge.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/15/sprj.irq.protests.main/index.html

    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....NFNXRWCRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=2234397

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030214/wl_nm/iraq_protest_dc_6

    Most of these war protestors have been infiltrated with anarchists, environmentalists, folks against Franken food nor SUVs, PETA, gay rights activists, pot legalizers, folks for Michael Jackson and OJ, and every other nut with a lame cause to promote.

    By promoting peace, protestors are supporting terrorists and Sadam. This is what Sadam wants. He knows if he strings this stuff out long enough, people will loose interest and he will just go back to his old ways.

    While the Euros eat cheese and get their herbal colonics, Sadam continues to build WMDs that he will later use on them or the USA. When he does use them, the Euros will come begging, "Please USA, save our sorry pacifists asses..."

    These war protestors are the same people who protested against the USA while hundreds of thousands were put to death in Serbia and Kosovo, the same kind of people who protested while the Vietkong and Cambodia committed genocide on millions, the same kind of people who said that Americans shouldn't go fight in Europe's war in WWII while millions of Jews were gased and burned.

    It's easy to walk and protest. The real heroes are the ones that go out and fight the good fight.

    Oh and by the way, our military uses Windows and Panasonic ToughBooks in the field. No Macs.

    Pete
     
  2. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #2
    Non violent protests do work, particularly when one is protesting against injustice as in the case of Martin Luther King, Jr. However, protesting on behalf of Saddam, a brutal tyrant, is not going to make a difference in this case.

    These protests generally function as cardiovascular fitness exercises rather than political events.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
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    Europe
    #3
    Well it seems like it may have worked over here in london!

    The rally became very political and according to some news channels here Tony Blairs political future has been brought into question, and this has been one of the most peaceful protests yet largest they've had in london.
     
  4. macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #4
    These protests are very sad, they are anti-US, anti-war, & anti-government! :(
     
  5. Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #5
    Absolutely not. They are the very epitome of US citizens exercising their rights to free speech and assembly.

    If we can't protest against the actions of our governmment, then the Constitution is a meaningless piece of paper.
     
  6. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Europe
    #6
    So if they are anti government, why did ken livingstone (lord mayor of london) and Mo Mowlam (Ex cabinet minister) and Tony Ben (Ex Labour MP) all join in????

    Most people who were interviewed at the protest here in london said how they were perfectly aware of saddam's evils and that they agreed with what the us did in afghanistan, its just that they don't think diplomatic avenues have been explored enough. They are all very well informed because here in Britain, as long as you don't read the Sun or Daily Mail we are completely free from biased propoganda reporting.
     
  7. macrumors demi-god

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
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    Los Angeles
    #7

    There is no such thing as unbiased reporting. You can have less biased, more biased and attempts to be unbiased but truly unbiased is a myth.


    Lethal
     
  8. macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
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    #8
    I think they do let leaders know how the public feels to a degree, but also i see these as buying time for saddam which any way you look at it is not good for the U.S. or the world. We all know he must go, but then you would think these same demonstrators must know that someone like saddam wont go and when he is forced out he will be more then happy to take down as many of his own people as he can. What Leader would want to put innocent people on top of known target sites. This is horrible and shows the type of killer the world is dealing with. I have a acre plus of land and could bury a rock in it and challenge everyone out there to find it and you couldnt unless i wanted you to. The same goes for all this stuff we know he has and unless he wants the inspectors to find it they never will! This is the worlds problem and see no way of disarming him other then by force. The world has seen enough wars but if the world dont do something with tyrants like saddam and the crazy korean there can only be more wars in the worlds future. Act now at small costs,act later at huge costs.---costs meaning lives
     
  9. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Europe
    #9
    yeah, i know its not completely unbiased, of course not, Its biased towards the opinion of the writer, I'm talking about the newspapers not supporting the government in every decision they make. Which, from my experience, is what CNN is like in the USA. The same problem does exist here. The less educated citizens of Great Britain tend to read the daily mail and the sun, because they are tabloid sized and written in a very easy to read style. The fact that they are owned by a large media group who have dealings with the government mean that they say what they say in order to gain some advantage. And their readers follow blindly cos they don't know any better. Fortunately this does not work with a lot of people in this country, so they read other papers like the Independent which is very independent! lol

    What I'm saying is a lot of reporting in America, may not be government lead and biased towards the government, but it tends to be very patriotic and this may be while a lot of Americans don't except the war protesters opinions because they are told on a day to day basis that war is a good idea. In some other threads, I was flamed for being anti-war, and I was given lots of Rhetoric about Saddam being evil, and the US being great cos they go round sorting the world out and giving loads of aid. All of which is true but you have to be outside the country to see from a perspective of your own and not of Bush's perspective.

    I think I made a valid point some how, although it seems an incoherent rant! :D
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    Europe
    #10
    LOL, doesn't the Bush Administration use windows too. Oh and the US military too! Worse than that still, the US houses the evil tyrant Gates himself and refuse to let him go down in their own courts let alone international courts! :D :D :D :D
     
  11. macrumors demi-god

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
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    Los Angeles
    #11
    I understand what you are saying. I usually try to rotate thru news sources 'cause that's the only way I feel I can get an accurate portrial of what's really going on.

    Your point of view on American media is interesting because I usually feel that American media is typically liberal and questioning and/or unsupportive of the majority of decissions/policies that the federal government makes (assuming a Democrat is not in office).


    Lethal
     
  12. macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #12
    All those window users just dont get it, well just goes to show that enough money and lawyers can get you out of anything!
     
  13. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #13
    A rational look at the situation reveals that:

    1. Saddam is a tyrant, in defiance of the UN resolutions for 12 years, and his time is up.
    2. He will be disarmed either by outside military force, an internal coup, or he will go into exile.
    3. The best solution is exile. The next is internal coup, and finally an outside military force.
    4. Marching through through the streets of the world's cities protesting the possibility of the disarming of Saddam with an outside military force, and reaction from France and Germany that more time is needed to prove that Saddam isn't cooperating, does not make such action less likely, but more likely. This is because not having a united front against Saddam only adds to his delusion that he can remain in power. It may also make those who might wish to remove him internally lose heart.
     
  14. macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
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    Location:
    iowa
    #14
    gay rights activists aren't some "nut with a lame cause". just because it's not important to you doesn't mean other people's lives aren't hugely affected.

    it's not whether or not it works. it's whether or not you sat by watching something happen that you're against, or you protested and did the best you could do.

    pnw
     
  15. macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #15
    How the hell did we go from war protest to gay rights?
     
  16. macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #16
    he mentioned it, among others, in his original post, listing them among other lame causes.

    i bet there's some medicinal marijuana users out there in a great deal of pain, and for them marijuana rights isn't a "lame cause".

    i personally can't get married. not a "lame cause" to me.

    animals are abused horrifically in other countries, in ways you can't imagine, i bet to them PETA isn't a "lame cause"

    he seems to think that because he doesn't have the motivation to go protest something, it's "lame". so peter2002, what do you want all these people to do? just sit back and take it, not voicing their opinions?! how the hell do you think civil rights, women's sufferage, and all those other injustices have been cured?

    that's right, PROTESTS drew attention to their cause.

    :mad:
    pnw
     
  17. macrumors 68020

    G4scott

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #17
    The only problem is getting somebody to replace Saddam that doesn't hate the rest of the world, and rise as the super power in the middle east. Saddams children will have to be exiled too. He's tried to kill two of his children, and the majority of him are worse than Saddam himself. It's like that guy in North Korea. He took over his father's position, and has gone bonkers. Saddam is already bonkers, and his children are much worse...

    I have mixed feelings about war with Iraq, and now with North Korea posing a threat to the US, the UN is going to be tied up between two tyrants- one crazy guy who we all know has nukes, and one crazy guy with children who god knows whwat he has...
     
  18. macrumors 65816

    kiwi_the_iwik

    Joined:
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    Location:
    London, UK
    #18
    I was in London this morning from 6am - and went live at 7am to cover the marches from the Embankment for my network. I was simply amazed at the turnout by the public - young and old, rich and poor - all side-by-side in solidarity against war in the Gulf. There must've been over a million protestors filing past us, making their message felt.

    All they are asking for is for the UN weapons inspectors to be able to do their job, without the added pressure and threat of a US-led force invasion.

    They have the right - after all, it was they who elected the leaders as their representatives, and therefore it should be they who are to be listened to by those elected officials, if said officials wish to remain in office...

    My reporter was totally unbiased, and called it as she saw it. We interviewed Jesse Jackson, Tony Benn and Ken Livingstone - and many protestors. All said the same thing - Say "NO" to War". So therefore, how biased can you possibly be?

    Tony Blair was at his Party Conference in Glasgow - he thought it prudent enough to mention in his speech (obviously from seeing the growing anti-war support in the Capital, and around the world) that UN weapons inspections must continue unabated if the situation is to be diffused.

    I'd call that a back-down - in any language - leaving George "Dubya" out in the cold...
     
  19. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Location:
    Oxford UK
    #19
    I'm ashamed and embarrassed

    as an Australian with German and Polish ancestors who were imprisoned in concentration camps during WWII to see a nation of people (British and Australian) that owe their freedom to the US turn around and show utter contempt.
    If it wasn't for the United States then Britain as we know it would not exist. If the Nazi's had taken Britain during WWII then who knows where it could have lead.

    I think it is very short sighted to oppose this war in anyway. We can not afford to take the risk and let Iraq become more of a threat than they already are.

    It disgusts me to hear of 2 million hypocrites marching against this war, in London. Where are they when thousands of East Timorese are massacred. Where are they when thousands of Rwandans are tortured, massacred and raped. It's just that it's COOL to protest war, and EASY.
    There are more casualties from starvation and disease every single day then will be a result of a war against Saddam.

    These protestors are not concerned for the deaths of innocent people. If they were so concerned with human suffering do you think there would be homeless people begging for money in tube stations, f@ck off, of course there wouldn't.

    I blame the people that marched today for the f@cked up planet that we live on today. I watch these very same people ignore the homeless with contempt in there eyes every single day. Why, all of a sudden are they so god damn concerned with people thousands of miles away.

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE. Why don't they give a damn normally. It really makes me feel sick in the stomach.

    If they stop this war, and if ten years down the track Saddam nukes another nation then I bet they won't apologise to the innocent victims , families or friends or even admit that they were wrong.

    The really sad fact is that most people that I've spoken to today saw it as a social gathering, a day to get out in the fresh air and chill with their buddies. I don't think a single one of them thought about the repercussions of their actions.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't have the answers and I'm certainly not perfect. I just don't want to bring my children up in a world like the one we have now. How can we think it's right to pay a person £3M a year to kick a piece of leather into a net when people are kicked onto the streets for not paying a credit card bill ? I don't understand what kind of person can evict a family from their own home. We as the human race need to be more understanding and forgiving.

    Enough of my off topic ranting, I could go on for days but I think I'll leave it here... bombs away !
     
  20. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #20
    Rational???

    1. UN resolutions don't seem to mean to much to suppoters of the invasion anyway. I don't think you can really use that one.

    2. Or by the threat of...

    3. But who's gonna take over. A US appointed leader or a leader ellected by the people of Iraq?? Either way I'm guessing there's gonna be some crazy and angry people who will be out to get America.

    4. The protests are against an (at the moment) uneccasary invasion, not of the disarming of Iraq.
     
  21. macrumors demi-god

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #21

    And the irony there is that w/o the threat of a US-led force invasion there would be no inspectors back in Iraq.

    And to stay on topic I do think preaceful protests work. Do they work overnight? No, but they bring attention to a cause. And if they can get enough sustained attetion things will start to change.


    Lethal
     
  22. macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #22
    YEA BOYEEEEEEE

    NOW GO PUT ON YOUR GI JOE UNIFORMS
    AND SLIT SOME THROATS YOU POOR MOFO.

    think about it just a wee bit longer and see
    that its people like you that keep putting us
    in posistions like this. the big dog wants the
    bone. god we are so infantile as a race.

    if you want to fight a war...why dont you fight
    agaisnt the rotten state of society. the cycle
    of abuse that fuels crime and hate. unless
    you cant see it, can you?

    .

    " And to stay on topic I do think preaceful protests work. Do they work overnight? No, but they bring attention to a cause. And if they can get enough sustained attetion things will start to change."


    didnt you say that the vietnam protests didnt
    stop the war even though they were at it for
    fifteen years?

    i dont know, im going. i dont have the answers
    but killing is not one of them im sure.

    p.s. i never played with G.I. Joe
     
  23. macrumors demi-god

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #23
    No I didn't. Someone else posted that. Regarding those protests though. Did they stop the Vietnam war? No, but ever since then people have always thought twice before sending troops in because they didn't want "another Vietnam." Many things socially and militarily were learned from Vietnam. So, in an indirect way, those protests did work.


    Lethal
     
  24. macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #24
    Re: I'm ashamed and embarrassed

    What is wrong with these people is they have their head up their A _ _ when it comes to Saddam. Thats why we are there to help them pull it out!
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #25
    sorry lethal,

    for mistaking you for the originator of this
    post. bad navigating skills on my part :D

    ANYWAY the guy that DID start this post...
    oh damn, i dont even think i'd talk to him if
    i was drunk and bored at a party. i'd rather
    put on a lamp shade and dance around naked.

    he doesnt even seem to know WHY people
    protest.....LOOK UP THE WORD. And yes
    it does have an affect. Maybe not the kind
    that you (the originator of this post) has been
    taught to crave. I mean your not going to see
    smoke and fire and little kids flesh being torn
    from them as their heads explode. There
    mothers face just two inches two the right.
    Safe for now but horrified and in shock.
    Your sick....go play with your g.i. joes.
    you power hungry mofo. Im out.This world
    sucks on a level I can barely describe. im just
    gonna get my kicks before the whole **** pile
    comes down.



    OH AND ANOTHER THING (DAMN *****
    PISSED ME ALL OFF :D )

    IF YOU THINK THE PROTESTER WHO SO
    HAPPENED TO BE A MONK, THAT SET HIMSELF
    ON FIRE AND SAT THERE PRAYING WHILE HE
    BURNED, NOT EVEN MOVING A MUSCLE WAS
    ALL IN VAIN THEN YOU HAVE NO HEART.

    DONT YOU GET WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO
    TELL YOU? TRYING TO TELL ALL OF US?

    NO MATTER HOW HARD THINGS ARE, NO
    MATTER WHAT YOUR PAIN OR TROUBLE,
    YOU CAN STILL BE FREE FROM IT.

    i dont know, never mind.
    p.s. that happens to be one of my all time
    favorite pictures. that monk trying to show
    us, help us understand the best he could. and
    knowing how we LOVE drama, he sets himself
    on fire and sits down peacfuly in protest.

    you cant even come close to the unerstanding
    it would take to commit such an act. the only
    reason why we war is because of power. we
    just cant leave the other guy alone.


    oh yea whats next. north korea, with china
    backing them. and who ever else see's us as
    a meddling bully? world war three before the
    PPC970 :( i hope not....i wanna see what
    these chips can do:p
     

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