Warranty/Apple Care

Discussion in 'iMac' started by axeman82, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    #1
    Hi, I'm another long time lurker first time poster. I've got 2 main questions really. First of all is the issue I have with Apple Care under the UK sales of goods act, and also the EU consumer goods law. Both clearly state that a product bought under these rules must be fit for purpose and work for an amount of time that is deemed fit for the product in question.

    Now I don't know about you guys, but I would say paying well over 2 grand for a desktop computer should at the absolute minimum be expected to last for around 5 years. Since I live in the UK, why should I have to purchase Apple Care for £140 to give me 3 measly years of cover, when my statutory rights entitle me to 6 years? And across the EU a mandatory 2 years?

    My next question is regarding the self upgrading of RAM. Will Apple refuse to cover the warranty if you add your own memory within the first year? Some companies jump on any chance they can to pass the blame onto the consumer, and I can see that being a possibility in this instance, but I'm sure you guys will have a definite answer to this one.
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #2
    I'm in the U.S., so I have no experience with UK or EU laws as they relate to warranties. However, it seems to me that the length of time for which any product should be fit for its intended use is quite subjective. I typically don't purchase AppleCare for my Macs, in part because my credit card doubles the standard one-year warranty. If there are many problems with the 2012 iMacs, however, I may decide to get it before the first year is up.

    As for adding memory, if the iMac you buy is deemed upgradable by Apple (as the 27" is), there should be no issue getting warranty service. You can always remove any third-party memory before you bring it to Apple if you're unsure, though.
     
  3. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    #3
    I don't have an answer for your questions, but I am curious about Applecare as well. Im in US, but is applecare a basic necessity when buying an imac? I just want to get a feel for how many people buy applecare.
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    Razorhog

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Location:
    Arkansas
    #4
    Due to the difficulties in repairing apple products, AppleCare is a good investment IMHO.
     
  5. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    #5
    but for the price and quality, I would expect it to last for 3 years anyway
     
  6. macrumors 6502a

    Razorhog

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Location:
    Arkansas
    #6
    Yes, I do too. But life doesn't always work that way unfortunately.
     
  7. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    #7
    This is the point I'm making. Apple products are grossly over priced on the premise of being a meticulous product. Giving a 1 year warranty shows no faith at all in the build quality of their machines. They should at the very least give 3 years as standard or lower the price.

    Most people don't take on big corporations, even though in a lot of cases their country's law gives them every right to a product being fixed or repaired by the retailer in cases of premature failure. There would be no doubt that a £2179 computer should be expected to last for more than a year under UK consumer laws, so to me Apple are kind of miss-selling insurance that is already statutory.

    Wasn't there a case recently where the Italian government sued Apple for this very issue?
     
  8. macrumors demi-god

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    #8
    I've seen statements like this posted occasionally (over the years) on the forum here. And I've seen a few more statements from UK/EU residents complaining that Apple (and shops) wouldn't honor a repair under the Bill of Goods act. So there appears to be a disconnect somewhere along the line.

    The won't warranty the third-party RAM you install, any damage you may have done installing it, or any damage caused by it. (i.e. if the RAM shorts out and kills your logic board also). I've seen where folks will reinstall the Apple RAM before bringing the Mac in for service, to make this a non-issue.

    There are literally hundreds of threads about people buying AppleCare, or "Is AppleCare worth it". Might be worth going through some of those, because a lot of people have an opinion on this issue, but won't type it out each time the question gets re-asked:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site://forums.macrumors.com imac applecare
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site://forums.macrumors.com applecare worth it

    Personally, I think that any time you buy a first generation of a major Apple re-design (like the current iMacs), it's wise to get AppleCare. Apple's had too many notorious examples of first gens after major redesigns having issues crop up down the road.

    Also, with iMacs, the complexity of fixing even simple issues (like a hard drive dying) is greater because of the design. You have to remove the screen before you can service anything. Apple doesn't design/manufacture many of the parts inside, like the hard drive, so you have just as much of a chance of it failing as you would with the same hard drive in a Dell/HP system.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    #9
    Yes, it was the Italian government, but it's something that applies to all UE countries: 2 years guarantee is a law requirement.

    What has happened is that Apple has been forced to specify that, despite its advertising of its products having a 1 year guarantee, no-matter-what the product had actually had a 2 year guarantee, whether Apple liked it or not. The seller is required to oblige that.
    In practical terms nothing has changed, just the way its advertised.

    Being an Apple fan, i do agree that 1 year of guarantee is ridicolous, especially if you do so specifically to encourage people in buying in a very expensive insurance plan.
     
  10. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    #10
    I still think it should be illegal to sell AppleCare in countries where your statutory rights already cover you. If there is so little power in the sale of goods act (UK) or the 2 year EU law then what good are they? It is common practise amongst big corporations around the world to up sell extra warranties, and it is a well known fact they make millions out of it. It is basically retail robbery.

    It is especially true of a product costing well over 2 grand. One year warranty just doesn't cut it at all. If the product is so great it should come as standard with 3 years. Sorry, rant over
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    #11
    It's not quite like that:

    1- Apple Care covers for 3 years, law obliges for 2. So it's not the same, by buying Apple Care you are extending the guarantee to 1 more year.
    2- Most importantly, AppleCare grants you direct Apple assistance: what does this mean? It means that if you buy from shop X an Apple computer (or any other item obviously), you have 2 years of guarantee. But you will have to give your computer to the shop you have purchased it, which then will send it to repair, etc. etc. In other words, the law puts the burden of the guarantee on the seller, not the manufacturer. This could slow things up when repairing something. If you're buying directly from Apple obviously this does not apply.

    Personally, i don't get why Apple puts a 1 year guarantee on their products, which is clearly something sub-par of its competitors despite their strategy clearly being about building superior products delivered with superior customer service and premium pricing. I don't really get how this strategy copes with offering a 1 year guarantee and then maybe having to rip-off a customer after 1 year and a half in case its premium priced, supposedly premium quality product fails. It's something that really can alienate a customer forever, and can't match it with the type of -great- customer service they generally offer.
     
  12. macrumors demi-god

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    #12
    AppleCare also gives the owner 3 years of telephone software support (for any Apple software). I've seen that be of value to some people.
     
  13. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    #13
    I understand what you're saying in regard to the EU rules, but my main point is specifically for the UK. The sales of goods act is for up to 6 years, allowing a reasonable expected lifespan. For example you shouldn't expect a £10 toaster to last for 6 years so neither will the law, but a £2,200 computer would certainly be expected to last at least 3 years defect free; so in my eyes I should be covered under the law of the land.

    Otherwise our laws are just empty words that are unenforcable against giant corporations.
     
  14. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    #14
    From what I researched, this 2 year EU or 6 year UK is useless since it says that you have to prove that the problem existed at the time of delivery.

    How on earth are you going to prove that your iMac which after 1.5 years of use now has a big yellow circle on the LCD was a problem at the time of delivery and thus is covered by EU2 years or UK 6 years??

    I read a case where in Germany where the EU 2 years was approved in 2002 a person got a MacBook and before 2 years (after 1 year) the HDD stopped working. Apple would only repair the MacBook at the cost of 49€. Now this person either pais the money, buys an HDD and install it himself or prove that the HDD "was faulty or not as advertised when you received it" one and half year ago.

    I think this just suks because any computer company usually gives 2-3 years on their products, except apple where you have to buy the apple care because they know it is basically impossible to make them repair your stuff after 1 year. (and good luck with paying someone less than the defective piece to enforce your rights)

    Given this I do not know but I think I will really need to pay for apple care (which is 179€ in Germany, ouch)
     
  15. macrumors demi-god

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    #15
    FWIW (as a data point), I just looked at Dell's most expensive "All-in-One" computer (US$2599), and they sell it with a one-year warranty, and the option to pay extra for a two (or three) year warranty.

    Looks like HP does a 2-3 year warranty, depending on the price point.
     

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  16. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #16
    Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You know the warranty going into the purchase, so don't purchase it if you don't like it. They aren't holding a gun to your head.

    There are so many things that could go wrong in a year (misuse, poor maintenance, etc) that I don't blame Apple for only covering it for that time period.
     
  17. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Location:
    Devon, UK
    #17
    I am not a fan of extended warranty's, however I've just bought one for my daughter's new iMAC using her National Union of Student's card...for £45. A bargain. If you have children the educational discounts are a generic 33% (or 66% Higher Education) for Applecare.

    My understanding is that there is a huge difference between
    (i) The UK statutory requirements, and
    (ii) Applecare.

    Because of the UK law the benefits of Applecare are perhaps lessened...but they are still more than the law requires. Technical support is just one feature.

    Apple have had to explain this on their website
    http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

    Which is supported by the UK governments consumer pages
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/phones_tv_internet_and_computers_index_e/consumer_problems_with_broken_or_faulty_equipment_e/computer_is_faulty.htm
     
  18. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Location:
    Devon, UK
    #18
    The European Commission also has a consumer centre that contains relevant info for the Uk and other EU countries
    http://www.ukecc.net/sub.asp?id=250

    "The seller is liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists when the goods are delivered to the consumer and which becomes apparent within a period of two years (within the UK the Limitations Act 1980 allows a consumer to claim for up to 6 years after the date of purchase) unless, the consumer was made aware of or could not reasonably be unaware of the lack of conformity prior to the point of contracting."

    The Uk Citizens advice bureau adds
    "You've had the goods more than six months
    You can still ask for a replacement or a repair as long as it's reasonable for the goods to have lasted this long. But you will have to be able to show there was something wrong with the goods at the time of sale.

    You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods."
     
  19. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    #19
    It is actually quite a good law as I have understood it.

    If your machine has a fault within the three year period the law gives you the right to have it repaired or replaced with no cost to you (i.e. for shipping) on a rather short notice.

    What you have to prove is that the fault is not a result of misuse. You aren't asked to prove that before an objection can actually be raised by the seller.

    First the product is shipped/collected by the seller to be repaired/replaced and then, if they find it obviously damaged in some physical way, they can refuse to pay for the repair/replacement (unless you can prove that it occurred during shipping).

    If you want to use this law it is better to keep the machine in good condition to be on the safe side. If there are dents or deformities or any other signs of misuse then you might be out of luck unless you provide some documentation that this was original.

    I am speaking from what I know about the law in Sweden at least. Not sure if it is the same EU law or a national one.
     

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