Wash Post: He Ought to Know

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    link

    what isn't so surprising to me is the message, but the source. the post has been quite pro-bush for years now.
     
  2. Stolid macrumors regular

    Stolid

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    #2
    I think its the Republican party just becomming very very strange Democrats.
    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040210-105643-1325r.htm

    I'm thinking its time for a party change. Wiggs, Federalist, AntiMasons, Republicans -- they all start to loose their initial ideology sometime.
    The Republicans are supposed to be small government and state-over-federal (And Democrats vice-versa). Someone tell me how the Patriot Act is a small gov't/state-oriented law. Now someone tell me that it doesn't "sound like a Republican" bill this day and age. There's my point.

    And yes I'm simplifying here but that's the historical marker for the parties through time (ie. how we account for whether we call Adams, Washington, and Jefferson a Republican or Democrat despite the fact those didn't exist back then as parties)
     
  3. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #3
    Great post, zim! If the GOP thinks they will win on this issue - well to quote Bush himself, "Bring it on!" Let's have a discussion about that Energy task force and Enron. Let's make this an election about Halliburton and Cheney's relationship.

    stolid, if I remember correctly Jefferson was the founder of the Democratic-Republican Party, the precursor to the Democratic Party of Andrew Jackson. The GOP's connections to those early days are much less clear. Obviously, what Political Parties stand for changes overtime. If the GOP was still the party of Lincoln and the "radical republicans" I'd be a registered Republican.
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #4
    Just to add to this its true Kerry has taken a lot of special interest money his 19 years in politics but its also true Bush had received more special interest money the last election then Kerry's 19 years of it. so who is the Hypocrite? face it Big business runs both parties through these donations. In fact many give to both sides so when their special interest item comes up for vote it gets passed. Both parties are selling America.
     
  5. Stolid macrumors regular

    Stolid

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    #5
    The parties have risen and fallen over the years;
    Most US history books won't list a president (in the index o presidents that is) as, say, Wigg or Mason. Instead they'll "cast" them into R or D.

    Jefferson's role in founding parties:
    http://uvaguides.zapto.org/resources/historical/political_parties.asp

    He had the Democratic-Republican party. Opposing the Federalist.
    We have then historically had: Anti-mason, National Republican, Whig, Free Soil, "Know-Nothing", Liberty, Greenback, and Populist -- among others.
    At most times in history there have been 2 parties; though a few notable elections had a 3rd make a showing. If I were to put my odds on any parties this coming election:
    Green - if they can seperate themselves from Democrats better as well as the image "all they care about is the enivronment"
    Libertarian - if they can get over their complex of not campaigning to non-libertarians
    Reform - if they can figure themselves out again (most doubtful I think) -- are they still even calling themselves that? :p I don't keep much track of the reform party

    Stolid
     
  6. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #6
    I don't know what history books you have been subjected to, but having studied history for many years and having a father who teaches high school history and gov't I have never seen a text book that doesn't list a president by their actuall party.
     
  7. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #7
    Whats even more hilarious is how the Republicans and Democrats have flip-flopped completely since the civil war. The Democrats back then were states-rights, old white men party. The Republicans were the progressive, federal rights, little guy party.

    Now the Democrats want stronger federal government, and are the party of the average joe (i.e. labor, minorities) and the Republicans are supposed to be small govt, power to the old white men party.
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #8
    I found that odd too.
    I've never seen that or heard of that.
     
  9. Stolid macrumors regular

    Stolid

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    #9
    I distinctly remember this in my US AP History book from High school.
    In the back of the book every president was listed with an R or a D next to them, if you wanted the "real" party you had to read the bullets on the far right of the entry.
     
  10. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #10
    what a far cry from:
     
  11. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #11
    I distinctly remember never having this type of thing in any of my textbooks, high school or college. So is it still "most" textbooks that have this problem?
     
  12. Stolid macrumors regular

    Stolid

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    #12
    I'm not in the habbit of going to read every history book I stumble upon. I distinctly remember my AP book did that, and I also have memories of earlier books, particularly my 4th grade (I know I know) book doing it.
    Perhaps I was right, perhaps not. I was going on a "most" based on what I've run into
     
  13. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    c.f. my comment about getting some more experience. methinks you've not seen enough of the world and life and make the rookie mistake of scaling what you see around you to generalizations of the world at large.

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. -Will Durant, historian (1885-1981)
     
  14. Stolid macrumors regular

    Stolid

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    #14
    Well; I would've made that guess regardless of how much experience I had. I'm no history major and so chances are I won't ever read a textbook style history book again. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
     

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