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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by lmalave, May 8, 2003.
i saw this video last night and I was horrified. as a student of feminism and a firm believer in the female form, it's hard to swallow.
Hazing has actually been declining for some time according to the "hazing expert" I saw interviewed yesterday.
I guess these girls wanted "equal opportunity."
And I guess the police officers who were there (seen in the video) were there to make sure they had a chance to exercise their opportunity in safety. It's really sad what human beings are capable of doing to each other...
whoa, that story was NOT ok. seriously. And of course the principal supports criminal charges....hes praying to save his own a$$.
the most f---ed up part of that was that spectators, including males joined in!! Im just glad they used the term male, as no MAN would jump up and start beating up a group of high school girls sitting on the ground!!
anyone know of a site where i can see the video for free? or at least the interview with them
yeah, i couldnt see the video..sorry, im a student, im not about ot pay for CNN.com so i can watch video clips!
if anyone knows of a place where it can be seen free, id like to know too
To a foreigner, this is quite inexplicable. What is "touch-football"? The report is completely meaningless to me. What is this barbaric ritual MEANT to be? Do parents and teachers know what goes on? Is this considered a GOOD THING? Is it meant to teach something valuable? WTF???
Ever see the movie "Dazed and Confused"?
No. Should that be "hazed and confused"? What IS "hazing", anyway?
Here is a link about hazing, stophazing.org! It gives information about high school, fraternity, sorority, & military hazing.
It's a lot like the ritual humiliations that go on in rugby clubs, where a new member will get a tube of Ralgex up his arse, or a chance to drink his own piss, same with the army, pain and humiliation to "prove" you're one of the gang.
I saw the video on the BBC last night, I've seen drug wars less vicious than that, I think it got way out of hand and no-one appeared able to stop.
Mob mentality at it's worst, but more disturbing for the fact these are school girls.
Re: We are a violent, violent country
No, those are violent, violent girls.
kyle? is right...those dozen girls do not a country make. "We" arent necessarily violent, but like everywhere, we have people who are violent. And really, everyone has the ability to be violent, its just you level of self control under circumstances.
Things like this are just re-enforcement for why hazing in any form needs to be banned. Im sure mild hazing like the mustard in the hair would all be in good fun. But something can always change...and then mild condiment hair becomes brutal mob beatings.
My point of view as a foreing non US individual.
At list in my country people are very affraid of the US people, every single one person here says "the gringos are crazy, you do not know what they are gonna do".
From my experiences after living more than 3 years in the US I can make a some points about that.
In a country like mine as other lating american country, our problems are the me and people get violent by the same things. You can get kill for your shoes, for your car, for your money or for a woman. 100% of the murders are from that only, so you are aware where the danger is in your enviroment.
In the US the violence is on the movies and on tv, that creates ansiety but the main problem is that the life in the US is so organize (boring) specially out side the big cities that people start looking for that "adrenalin" some where. Now there is not an specific patern or motive to fallow. In that case you can find:
-A 14 year old kid runing in the high way in a stolen car just becase.
-A crazy man trowing a beer bottle out the window of his car going at 60 MPH to a ciclist (I was the guy on the bike).
-A guy who do a bank robery twice just for fun.
-Kids shooting at their teachers.
You may not believe this but those things never happen in my country, and I live in a country with lots of problems. The differentes is that we have real problems to deal with, in the US it depends of the individual. That is why you can find such strange "crimes" going on. That is why the US is violent contry every where, actually is not violent is "unexpected/uncommon violence".
Sorry about my spelling.
You should talk to my brother. He's quite amused by how Americans will get uptight about the littlest things because we don't have any 'real' problems.
Re: Re: We are a violent, violent country
So what about the allegation that police officers were present and allowed the hazing to take place?
Wouldn't their acceptance of the violence extend to a condoning of the act by society as a whole?
I believe there are studies that showed that girls are bigger bullies than boys. Or at least on the same level. Of course, bullying doesn't have to mean physical violence.
Re: Re: Re: We are a violent, violent country
I really hope you are not suggestiong that the actions of a handful of individuals acurately represents the vast majority of Americans (280 million people by last count)...
Re: Re: Re: Re: We are a violent, violent country
Not at all. But if officials who look out for the safety of the population ignore violence of this sort, what does that say about the society?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: We are a violent, violent country
I don't know. What do actions by a few individuals say about society as a whole?
Because there are murders and rapists in the US does that mean the US is a nation of murders and rapists?
As a society we created laws against violence and brutality agianst others. If individuals choose to ignore those laws that is their prerogative. If you want to make conclusions about US society as a whole you need to study US society as a whole. You cannot accurately make conclusions about a nation of 280 million people by the actions of a handful of people.
EDIT: fixed some spelling
Can we be called a non-violent nation if violence like this takes place?
I understand what you're saying about painting broad strokes about a population based on the actions of a few. It's quite reminiscent of what's happened in this country with Muslims since 9/11.
My contention is that it's abhorrent that the existence of, and potential for violence like this exists in a society as "advanced" as ours.
i know you shouldn't judge an entire country on individual actions...however it was stated above that laws are made by our country to stop such actions..but when the enforces of this law don't do ANYTHING...what is that saying?
anyway...its pretty awful some of the crimes that are committed these days
Re: My point of view as a foreing non US individual.
Ergo tractor pulls, monster trucks and sports out the wazoo.
We don't have to actuallly fend for our food and shelter here - well, not in the respect that you mention - that was done for us by our ancestors.
We are far too hard on ourselves, and you know what? I'm glad - it's a control.
You make very good points. Thank you for your perspective.
Despite your spelling
As disturbing as that video is I think you need to check yer perspective. You are labeling the US as violent based on some HS girls getting hazed, and a few needing hospital treatment. But how many people in the US, and in other countries, are beaten, raped, murder, tortured, or otherwise brutalized every day? And everyone is up in arms over some HS girls getting minor injuries(yes, minor, nothing was life threatening AFAIK)? Is it because we saw video of this event that makes it seems so shocking? Is it because it was mainly teenage girls doing it? Is it a bit of both?
I dunno... I guess it just strikes me as odd that such condemnation and judgemental comments are coming about because a group of teenage girls assulated other teenage girls. If you want to label the US a violent nation at least justify it by citing more serious acts of violence. For example, recently in Indianapolis an owner of a local Indian restaurant was set on fire because he was from the Middle East. Some guys broke into his restaurant after hours and torched him. Last I heard he was doing much better and has a good chance of living. And just last night a kid (16 or 17) killed his girlfriend because she wouldn't tell him if she was preggers or not.
The hazing, while initially shocking to see, was more dissappointing to me than disturbing. And, on the violence scale, it ranks pretty low IMO.
I apologize if my rant isn't very clear, it's late here and I had to work a double shift.