Web site says American captive beheaded

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by wdlove, May 11, 2004.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #1
    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- An al Qaeda-linked Web site showed video Tuesday of a man who identified himself as an American and then was beheaded.

    His captors said the United States refused to exchange him for prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison.

    "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," says a hooded man standing behind the American.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.main/index.html
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    Sorry wdlove, but this belongs in the political section. You know this will get out of hand fast.
     
  3. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #3
    This is a vey sad atrocity of war. My prayers go out to the family and friends of Nicholas Berg. Hopefully this will wake Americans up to what this War on terrorism is really about. Our very lives as we know it is at stake. Iraq just happens to be a theatre in the war. I don't consider it to be political at all, but patriotism and our way of life.

    For resepect of Nicholas please don't be political. :(
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    Hopefully it will be investigated by professionals. They need to look at motive and opportunity as to why this happened. Such as who does it help and hurt most. The pictures certainly look staged.
     
  5. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #5
    I think we all understood what the war on terrorism was all about after 9/11. If there are any who believe al Qaeda or its splinter groups are anything but murdering thugs who want the world to go back to feudal times, then they are a very, very small minority. However, don't tell me I have to support Bush's war in Iraq to reject and fight against al Qaeda. I too send my sympathies to Mr. Berg's family and friends. Please don't think that those who disagree with Bush aren't as horrified by this execution as you.
     
  6. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #6
    The CNN.com story claims that his body has been found in Baghdad. Unfortunately, it sounds as though this was not staged.
     
  7. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #7
    Yes, but it seems to be the case (e.g. according to this Reuters story) that this was an act of al Qaeda's top guy in Iraq.
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    Perhaps, but how was it exactly that Al Qaeda came to have a presence in Iraq?
     
  9. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #9
    Good question. I mean, I keep hearing that there's no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda. Maybe Reuters got the story wrong.
     
  10. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #10
    Whoever did this, and yes I understand it is likely that it was done by al Qaeda, should be hunted down and punished. None of that is an endorsement of Bush's war.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #11
    No, you were hearing that there wasn't any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. After the invasion, Al Qaeda operatives moved into Iraq. The one cited in this story as a leader is Jordanian.
     
  12. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #12
    so -- is mr. berg's death more tragic than those killed in abu ghraib prison?
     
  13. dopefiend macrumors 6502

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    #13

    Yup. :D

    From what I read of one occurence as found in this link ( linky )

    They brought it on.

     
  14. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

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    #14
    Do you refer to the Iraqis under Saddam? To my knowledge no prisoners were killed like this by U.S. Soldiers. I think this is much worse than the recent behavior of the seven soldiers at adu ghraid...
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    sorry i wasn't clear, no. i mean since it's been under US command.

    from a may 5 wash post story
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    i find that absolutely despicable. you know, it's the duty of a captured soldier to try to escape. and the IRC says as much as 90% of those prisoners were wrongfully imprisoned. how can you be so quick to 1) assume those prisoners are guilty of something, and 2) feel that anything that comes to them, death included, is deserved?
     
  17. dopefiend macrumors 6502

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    #17
    1. You don't know if the people killed were wrongfully accused, just a % that were held there.

    2. They were trying to escape. What do you expect when trying to escape from a prison? "Oh, we will catch them later. Let them go." :rolleyes:
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    you don't know that. there are rumors that as many as two dozen were killed at the prison. at least one, the guy who was wrapped in ice before being unceremoniously dumped in the desert, died in interrogation, not while escaping.

    do you leave any room for error on the part of the US military, or shall i dismiss you as a jingoistic cheerleader who believes that all iraqis are fair game and deserve whatever they get?
     
  19. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #19
    According to the stories I've seen so far, Nick Berg was a civilian, an independent communications contractor. But as you've pointed out, it is quite possible that the Iraqis who were killed in the Abu Ghraib prison were wrongfully imprisoned. I don't think the fact that they were killed while trying to escape "lessens" the tragedy of the Iraqi prisoners' deaths, especially if it turns out that they were in fact innocent civilians.
     
  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    Most 'Arrested by Mistake'

    Coalition intelligence put numbers at 70% to 90% of Iraq prisoners, says a February Red Cross report, which details further abuses.

    By Bob Drogin
    Times Staff Writer

    May 11, 2004

    WASHINGTON — Coalition military intelligence officials estimated that 70% to 90% of prisoners detained in Iraq since the war began last year "had been arrested by mistake," according to a confidential Red Cross report given to the Bush administration earlier this year.

    Yet the report described a wide range of prisoner mistreatment — including many new details of abusive techniques — that it said U.S. officials had failed to halt, despite repeated complaints from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

    ICRC monitors saw some improvements by early this year, but the continued abuses "went beyond exceptional cases and might be considered as a practice tolerated" by coalition forces, the report concluded.

    The Swiss-based ICRC, which made 29 visits to coalition-run prisons and camps between late March and November last year, said it repeatedly presented its reports of mistreatment to prison commanders, U.S. military officials in Iraq and members of the Bush administration in Washington.

    The ICRC summary report, which was written in February, also said Red Cross officials had complained to senior military officials that families of Iraqi suspects usually were told so little that most arrests resulted "in the de facto 'disappearance' of the arrestee for weeks or even months."

    The report also described previously undocumented forms of abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody. In October, for example, an Iraqi prisoner was "hooded, handcuffed in the back, and made to lie face down" on what investigators believe was the engine hood of a vehicle while he was being transported. He was hospitalized for three months for extensive burns to his face, abdomen, foot and hand, the report added.

    More than 100 "high-value detainees," apparently including former senior officials in Saddam Hussein's regime and in some cases their family members, were held for five months at the Baghdad airport "in strict solitary confinement" in small cells for 23 hours a day, the report said.

    Such conditions "constituted a serious violation" of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions, which set minimum standards for treatment of prisoners of war and civilian internees, the report said. U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency, conducted interrogations at the site, but Army units were in charge of custody operations, officials said Monday.

    Portions of the ICRC report were published last week. The full 24-page report, which The Times obtained Monday, cites more than 250 allegations of mistreatment at prisons and temporary detention facilities run by U.S. and other occupation forces across Iraq.

    The report also referred to, but provided no details of, "allegations of deaths as a result of harsh internment conditions, ill treatment, lack of medical attention, or the combination thereof."

    Spokesmen at the Pentagon and at U.S. Central Command headquarters said they had not seen the ICRC report and could not comment on specific charges. ICRC officials in Geneva said they regretted that the document became public. The ICRC usually shares its findings only with governments or other authorities to maintain access to detainees held in conflicts around the world.

    Among the abusive techniques detailed in the report was forcing detainees to wear hoods for up to four consecutive days.

    "Hooding was sometimes used in conjunction with beatings, thus increasing anxiety as to when blows would come," the report said. "The practice of hooding also allowed the interrogators to remain anonymous and thus to act with impunity."

    In some cases, plastic handcuffs allegedly were so tight for so long that they caused long-term nerve damage. Men were punched, kicked and beaten with rifles and pistols; faces were pressed "into the ground with boots." Prisoners were threatened with reprisals against family members, execution or transfer to the U.S. lockup at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    The report also provides new details about the now-notorious Abu Ghraib prison, the focus of the prisoner abuse scandal.

    During a visit to the "isolation section" of Abu Ghraib prison in October, ICRC delegates witnessed prisoners "completely naked in totally empty concrete cells and in total darkness, allegedly for several consecutive days."

    A military intelligence officer, who is not identified in the report, told the ICRC monitors that such treatment was "part of the process" in which prisoners were given clothing, bedding, lights and toiletries in exchange for cooperation.

    The ICRC sent its report to the military police brigade commander in charge of Abu Ghraib after the October visit, and the commander responded Dec. 24, a senior Pentagon official said last week. But the Pentagon did not launch a formal investigation into abuses at the prison until a low-ranking U.S. soldier approached military investigators Jan. 13 and gave them a computer disc of photos.

    The ICRC report also describes torture and other brutal practices by Iraqi police working in Baghdad under the U.S.-led occupation.

    It cites cases in which suspects held by Iraqi police allegedly were beaten with cables, kicked in the testicles, burned with cigarettes and forced to sign confessions.

    In June, a group of men arrested by Iraqi police "allegedly had water poured on their legs and had electrical shocks administered to them with stripped tips of electrical wires," the report notes.

    One man's mother was brought in, "and the policeman threatened to mistreat her." Another detainee "was threatened with having his wife brought in and raped."

    "Many persons deprived of their liberty drew parallels between police practices under the occupation with those of the former regime," the report noted. ​

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-redcross11may11,1,3173652.story
     
  21. dopefiend macrumors 6502

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    #21
    I don't believe rumors until they have been proven.

    No need to resort to name calling :rolleyes: Lets be civil here.

    A man had his head cut off. He was a guy trying to earn a living. Stop trying to weigh him against others, just feel sorry for him and the whole ****ed up situation over there.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    is eye rolling part of that civility?

    yes, it's a tragedy. now, do you know why he was killed?
     
  23. dopefiend macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Who can take that cartoonish smilie seriously? hehe

    Do insane murderers have to have a cause?
    Being from the terrorist group that its from, probably because Allah told them to :rolleyes:
     
  24. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #24
    So the question is:
    Do you think this would have happened if the abuses of prisoners by the US had not taken place?

    Also, if most of the people in US custody at the Prison are innocent, then why would the US not trade them for this mans' life?
    Is it the US policy of not negotiating with terrorists?
    Is it that the Us does not want to admit they arrested the wrong people?
    Is it that the prisoners are not as innocent as many of us expect?
    Is it that Al Qaeda is using this as a propaganda tool, to gain symapathy w. the Iraqi people?
    Is it that the US is using this as propaganda to reinforce the need for commitment in Iraq to
    fight against terror?

    Seems very Isreali/Palestianian to me...

    Regardless, I extend my sympathies to this man and his family as another casualtie of war, and of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...very sad indeed.
     
  25. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #25
    That's a pretty defeatist attitude, don't you think. Rather than rolling the eyes and shrugging the shoulders and saying the whole thing is ****ed up so lets feel sorry about it, I think we owe it to all who have died, Iraqi and US, to try work out why it has gone so spectacularly wrong and repair the damage done so far, learn from the mistakes and hold those responsible on both sides accountable.
     

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